01 mag cam in 05 NGC 2.0?

supertrick_05 · Post by **supertrick_05** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:30 pm

Would it be worth it to get an 01 RT mag cam for my 05 2.0 with the NGC computer? If yes, what else would I need as far as springs and such? I can get one for a great price, so that's why I'm asking.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:39 pm

My dad is running a '03 Mag cam in his otherwise stock Neon with statdard valve springs. IMO, switching to Magnum/Crane springs is for those who want a little extra insurance and piece of mind. IMO you can just drop in the cam with out any other mods.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:43 pm

Mag cam on reg springs is good to go, even in NGC.

supertrick_05 · Post by **supertrick_05** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:50 pm

I'm just wondering if it's even worth it for the NGC'd guys...I'd like to hear input from 03-05 SXT owners that put them in and noticed any gains. I haven't put any performance mods on my car yet...I guess I'm just being cautious. Don't want to get something that doesn't do anything, ya know?

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:12 pm

I think it'll certainly help out. Whether you'll notice it or not, I don't know.

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:29 pm

Big difference in the R/T, no #'s but it is definately faster

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:40 pm

there are charts all over this board of differences in the different cams, if I find one I will post it for ya, but the 01 cam would be the best upgrade for a mild cam upgrade, next being the comp 200 or crane 12... if you wanted some even more streetable power with an upgrade in springs as well, do the comp 400... keeps it in the powerband as well.

I would assume that you would need new springs though with any mag cam considering that stock the sxt springs are diff than the mag ones...?

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:41 pm

I felt a huge difference from like 6400RPM up, and a slight difference down lower. I'm kinda in a different application, but the same principles apply. FWIW, I was spinning the motor at up to 7300RPM on stock springs, and intend to do so again once I get this new bottom end put together.

supertrick_05 · Post by **supertrick_05** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:30 pm

Yeah, no way would I be running 7300 RPM's...

So is $75 shipped a good deal? That's what I offered him...see what he says. It's got 30,xxx miles on it.

soul_sword34 · Post by **soul_sword34** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:01 pm

supertrick_05 wrote:Yeah, no way would I be running 7300 RPM's...

So is $75 shipped a good deal? That's what I offered him...see what he says. It's got 30,xxx miles on it.

Amount of work vs power gain it is not worth it. Get something with a little more bite.

supertrick_05 · Post by **supertrick_05** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:22 pm

soul_sword34 wrote:
supertrick_05 wrote:Get something with a little more bite.

Like what?

soul_sword34 · Post by **soul_sword34** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:25 pm

supertrick_05 wrote:
soul_sword34 wrote:
supertrick_05 wrote:Get something with a little more bite.
Like what?

Anything but a 95 cam, Magnum cam or the Crane 12. Go with a Comp 400 or a Crane 14. Although with your current mods it won't matter.

OB · Post by OB » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:51 pm

^That's a bit too big to run on a stock computer if you ask me.

Just keep in mind supertrick, if you're pulling the head off to put the cam in anyways, now is the best time to install upgraded springs and retainers. A fresh headgasket and maybe some ARP studs would be a good idea as well. I know i'd feel better on matching springs than with the stock non-mag ones.

supertrick_05 · Post by **supertrick_05** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:23 pm

soul_sword34 wrote:Like what?

Anything but a 95 cam, Magnum cam or the Crane 12. Go with a Comp 400 or a Crane 14. Although with your current mods it won't matter.[/quote]

Um...I'm not getting a 95 cam. I'm getting a 2001 Magnum cam...the most sought after OEM cam. And Im not sure if I'm going to get it anymore...it's really between that and a 60mm throttle body, and I think I'm leaning more on the TB.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:37 am

Just remember that a 60mm TB may or may not throw a CEL

bigjosh · Post by **bigjosh** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:11 pm

Well I am running a comp 400 on my NGC on mag springs and it made a big difference back when I first put it on (cannot really tell now, unless I race a stock 5spd

). It runs good on the stock computer, but I kind of feel that it is not running at its full potential. Hopefully that will change in the future. Keep in mind that I had a bunch of work done at the same time as opposed to just swapping a cam on the stock head.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:46 pm

bigjosh wrote:Well I am running a comp 400 on my NGC on mag springs and it made a big difference back when I first put it on (cannot really tell now, unless I race a stock 5spd ). It runs good on the stock computer, but I kind of feel that it is not running at its full potential. Hopefully that will change in the future. Keep in mind that I had a bunch of work done at the same time as opposed to just swapping a cam on the stock head.

I'm sure it's not at it's full potential. Seems like you have enough work done that the stock timing maps just won't cut it anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if you gained 15whp just by switching to a standalone.

My opinion is that the SOHC head, even as bad as it flows, isn't the major flow restriction. I've seen people do some pretty amazing stuff without changing the head with the exception of a cam. I would bet that if you took a completely stock SOHC car and tossed a 400 in it, you would see some decent top end gains, but if you swapped the stock cam into a magnum head, you would see very little improvement.

supertrick_05 · Post by **supertrick_05** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:19 pm

racer12306 wrote:Just remember that a 60mm TB may or may not throw a CEL

Why would that happen? I haven't heard that before...???

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:26 pm

Changes the MAP/TPS relationship. Map sensor reads higher than normal at mid-throttle positions.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:25 pm

racer12306 wrote:Just remember that a 60mm TB may or may not throw a CEL

I have read about people putting 60mm T/B's on '04-05 Neons having codes AND the car going into "limp mode" (???), limiting the engine to no more than 4000 RPM.
Pretty much defeats the whole purpose of a 60mm T/B, in my opinion.

IF you are going to pull the head, now would be the time to seriously consider milling the head ..... to bump up the compression.

I don't know if anyone has tried bumping the compression on an NGC engine before.
You may be the first !!

The lower compression on the later model year SOHC's is supposed to be the MAIN reason that they don't respond as well to mods, or so I have heard.

-Nick

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:35 pm

Nick! I didn't know you were on here. If I were going to tear into a motor that far, I'd just put in pre-NGC internals. Not like they are expensive. Half a point right there.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:48 pm

esteinmaier wrote:Nick! I didn't know you were on here.

If I were going to tear into a motor that far, I'd just put in pre-NGC internals. Not like they are expensive. Half a point right there.

Hi Erik ...... Yes I am now "here", too.
My brother and I just picked up a 2000 MTX this past weekend.

Back on topic: Yes, great suggestion about the "pre-NGC" internals.
I know that the later model SOHC's have lower compression, but I don't recall which year they started doing that.

-Nick

Post by **Canada** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:16 pm

2003.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:06 pm

All non-mag NGC neons were 9.3:1 compression.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:45 pm

My 2001 DCX service manual specifies 9.8:1 for both Magnum and non. I think after 2003 the non magnums were 9.3. I can't say for sure about the Magnum C.R.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:06 am

Magnums kept the 9.8:1 in 03 and 04.