Working Under the Car - Scary

latief · Post by **latief** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:41 am

Maybe it is just me, but i still get a bit freaked out when i have to crawl under the car to work on something deep in there. I go by the book, make sure the e-brake is all the way up, and that the car is in gear (although not helpful if front tires are all the way up). i pick a flat clean area, raise the vehicle, and secure my jack-stands on both sides, then put my wheel stops in. i also keep my jack close to the jack-stand in the side I'm working on just in case i need to raise the vehicle quickly......

so after all this, i still feel that it will only take one stand to fail for me or anyone helping to be severely hurt. and i honestly don't trust cheap Chinese products or Walmart products (which is where my jack and jack stands are from). so, any advice on how be safe under the vehicle? any additional tricks/ techniques?

recommend a brand of jack-stands that are both cheap enough, but safe enough so that will not fail suddenly ......

i think this is an important issue to bring up, becasue I've seen people take some unnecessary risks, and as much as we love the neon, it is not worth being hurt .....

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:11 am

Some good ramps, but if you're lowered you need ramps for the ramps and depending on how that's done can be risky. I prefer ramps and wheel chocks whenever posible because even if you screw up getting the car raised you are in the car not under it. unfortunately mine is lowered and i haven't got to making some extensions for my ramps. I know i could put some boards in front, but if they come out whie driving up, then my bumper is toast. They still work great for the rear tho. In the front I take the "foot out of the stand and set the subframe bolt down in the hole. It's not going anywhere. It may not be as high as I like sometimes but better safe...

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:52 am

I've only ever seen a jackstand fail once in my life, and what we had to do to that stand to make it fail was ridiculous. It was a cheap Chinese crap one at that.

Saying that, I have seen a LOT of jackstands slip and drop a vehicle because the doorknob using them selected the wrong place to install it. It either wasn't a structural member (how many times have I seen people support a vehicle by the floor pan) or the member they supported the vehicle with was large and roundish and the stand slipped off.

So really 999/1000 it comes down to user error. Look out for #1 as always and you'll be fine.

latief · Post by **latief** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:17 am

yes, ramps are great, but if you need your tires off then they are not going to work........

as for the jack stand failing, true under normal circumstances, they should not. but if the car roles slightly backwards (for example you have a big stuck bolt) and and you are using the breaker bar to loosen it up or something, it will only take a small shift to cause a chain reaction.... and your screwed.
i always shake the car well before i get under it to make sure it is not going anywhere, but you can't help but get worried...or maybe its just me.....besides, i don' t trust my e-brake, as it has sucked since day one......

quick question about wheel stops/ chokes....do you raise the vehicle first, then place them or, place them first then raise the vehicle?

thanks....

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:20 am

get yourself some good solid cinderblocks! lol ok i'm half way kidding...

when i lift my car, or anyone elses car, what i usually do is jack it up by the pinch weld, and then secure it with jackstands on the main "frame" support under the car, the 2 3" wide "beams" that run front to back for the most part. very strong, and stable...

i did way i was half way kidding. I have used cinderblocks several times becuase they can support the weight, but only use them when all 4 wheels have to be off the ground. using blocks, the cars not going anywhere. i use the kind of blocks that have a U at one end, that way even if the car DOES slide side to side at all(aint gonna happen regardless), it still cant slip off the blocks.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:22 am

If the car is rolling when you're working on it, then you haven't supported it properly. I've absolutely reefed the hell out suspension bolts on my car (breaker bar with an extension bar on it) and it doesn't move a bit.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:29 pm

as long as you are using the car to push against while you are pulling on the beaker bar then the force goes back into the car and it isn't going to move. but if you are pulling on the breaker bar and using something other than the car you could pull it off the supports. As far as cinder blocks if you must use them (and I don't recommend it) always have the holes facing up/down never so you can see through them. with the holes horizontal they are very weak. they don't build with them so the holes face out for a reason...(and it isn't because they block the wind with the holes vertical)

Edit: and place wood or something between them and the car/ground so stress or a sharp point wont crack them. You are truely rolling the dice when you use cinder blocks. I admit I've used them when I was younger and invincible, with little cash to spend. So I can't really crack on anyone for using them. And it was for cars alot heaver than a Neon.

latief · Post by **latief** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:09 pm

No cinder blocks for, I'm sticking with the stands

thanks for all the input....

i know that this has been covered before, but back to the raising/ mounting points.I place the stands under the pinch-weld (where the regular tire-change jack fits) according to the manual . i don't like that honestly becasue you really need a pinch-weld adapter for the stands, and they are quite expensive... is this acceptable? or should i place the stands under the frame members nighthawk was referring to ?

also, no one answered my question about the wheel-chokes, any one have feedback on that ?

man, yesterday i was working under there (all the way in the back near the exhaust manifold, and it was nasty ........

thanks.

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:30 pm

I remember back when i first started working on my car i would do some seriously stupid shyt and one time i was just using my factory jack , I was working on the car with just that no jack stands or blocks. I was under the car and i heard it cracking so i hopped up and as soon as i jumped from under the car the stand clapsed and the car slammed down to the ground.

Since then i learned my lesson, i currently use two sets of jacks and if my wheels are coming off ill slide a wheel under there just for backup. Do anything you can to make sure you are safe.

latief · Post by **latief** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:34 pm

so 4 jack stands are safer than two i guess, since it will not roll...right ?

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:00 pm

Not really... two jackstands and two tires is safe. You only do all four stands when you find it absolutely easier (such as tire rotations, all four brakes changes, etc.) I've seen some t00l accidentally push a car off of four jackstands. Don't ask. It wasn't me, either. And he nearly got his ass kicked by the car's owner.

If you run two solid jackstands, you will be fine. They don't have to be expensive ones, either. The key is what NiteHawk said, it's all in the placement. Getting them under the structural braces is best.

My dad decided to do something with just a jack once... it failed, and his head was directly under the frame of the car. He happened to be using a scoop lamp at the time, and the lamp saved his life. He still has the bent lamp, the lamp still works, and so does his melon. And he ALWAYS uses jackstands now.

KrackstaR · Post by **KrackstaR** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:43 pm

i dont take all 4 wheels off the ground just two as needed but ill toss two other jacks under there just incase the first set fails between the other set and the tire i should have enuff time to pull my self from under the car.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:57 pm

latief wrote: also, no one answered my question about the wheel-chokes, any one have feedback on that ?

You'll want to put the chocks on both sides of the tires staying on the ground (obviously) and lift the vehicle, then readjust if needed after lifted. This way it prevents the car from possibly moving and slipping off the jack, or the jack tipping over. Also when using a floor jack make sure it can roll so it centers itself under the load. If I have to use mine on a rough surface I put a piece of plate steel under it.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:00 pm

or a vehicle lift... $\:D/$

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:28 pm

^^^ My jack points.

I never jack on the pinch welds unless I'm changing a flat on the side of the road. I certinaly would NEVER put a jack stand on the pinch weld.

latief · Post by **latief** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:48 pm

that truly looks scary ...........although your jack points make sense ...........just a little side-way movement and it will fall..........

how strong is that setup?

thanks for the pics.....

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:17 pm

Well, the k-member at the front of the car (where the red/black stands are located) is the strongest part of the car. You might not be able to see, but the notches in the stands fall perfectly on the k-member, where the outter uprights of the notches sit in holes in the member and the inner uprights sit just outside of it. So there is no way the front can slip off the stands. The stands are also angled ~45 degrees, that way the legs of the stands have the largest distance apart from each other, so they're the hardest to tip over in that position.

The back stands sit on a relativly large flat area that is contained front/back by the rear control arms. But there is a large curve upward just outward of the points, that's why I like to keep the hydrolic jack back there.

Overall I feel it's very safe... has fallen on me yet

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:18 pm

Even tho the jackstands are prolly designed to be extended up as far as the ones in the rear, It usually makes me nervous to go more than half. Could be why I have a couple of sizes handy depending on what I'm doing. If it's just holding an exhaust in place then I'll use it fully extended. But that's prolly just the older you get the more cautious you are syndrome talking.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:23 pm

Here is what I do on my own Neons, after placing them on jackstands:
I take some bare rims and place them under the tires, then lower it enough to compress the springs and struts a little.

This does a couple of things:

1). Provides an extra margin of safety and stability.

2). Compress the springs and struts so that they are not left "hanging"
(not really good for your struts.)

Of course, this is useful only if you are NOT taking the tires & rims off your car (such as doing a brake job).
If you are doing any other maintenance, such as exhaust work, etc., then this method is handy.

NiteHawk wrote:get yourself some good solid cinderblocks! lol ok i'm half way kidding...

Actually, I have tried using those.... BUT a set of bare rims are much lighter.

-Nick

latief · Post by **latief** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:04 am

It would be really good if some of the very experinced members over here wrote a "how-to" on proper procedures for raising, and securing the vehicle. It might be helpful for some of the newer members who don't realize how easy things could go wrong if not properly done......

CAMS_02 · Post by **CAMS_02** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am

Hey, I just had an awesome idea: Tie a heavy rope to the front of your car, run it to the wall of the garage your car is facing, through a pulley and back to the car and tie it to your ankles. When the car rolls backwards off the ramps, it'll yank you out from under the car as it goes. Of course, if the jacks or ramps simply give out and allow the car to fall straight down, you're screwed and anyone that finds you with a rope around your ankles is going to think you were doing something kinky under there!

Seriously, if your gear (ramps, jacks, lifts, stands) doesn't inspire confidence, ditch it and buy yourself something that does. I've got a heavy set of steel ramps that I've used for years and have never been afraid to crawl underneath the car (or my old van) when it's up on 'em.

gski4life · Post by **gski4life** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:54 pm

Jamie wrote:or a vehicle lift... $\:D/$

MAN where'd you get that lift??? seriously, want one just like it.....how does it work? hydrolic or air pressure?

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:43 pm

Grow some Bullocks.

lol

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:24 am

MoxHair wrote:Grow some Bullocks.

lol

They do grow, er swell nicely when they've been smashed!

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:34 am

Its hydraulic the pump is 110v and plugs right into the wall. Its portable and can be moved about the garage. that one is my Uncles but I was looking to get one from my garage. They arent as expensive as most people think. its just the shipping and setting up. That one is just a scissor lift. lifts it up about 4 feet. about 2 grand when i was looking at them. just do a google for lifts. you can get them cheaper. my new garage will have a 12' ceiling for an actual two pillar lift that I can mount in the concrete.

Have fun
J

gski4life · Post by **gski4life** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:30 am

Jamie wrote:Its hydraulic the pump is 110v and plugs right into the wall. Its portable and can be moved about the garage. that one is my Uncles but I was looking to get one from my garage. They arent as expensive as most people think. its just the shipping and setting up. That one is just a scissor lift. lifts it up about 4 feet. about 2 grand when i was looking at them. just do a google for lifts. you can get them cheaper. my new garage will have a 12' ceiling for an actual two pillar lift that I can mount in the concrete.

Have fun
J

I will mos def look into it....I hope it isn't 2k tho......I've seen some 2 post hydro lifts going for $1500 or so.

And if that one plugs into a wall outlet that would be PERFECT for my small space and absence of a air compressor

gski4life · Post by **gski4life** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:18 am

shit...cheapest I found was $995 + $358 shipping....

hhmmmmmmm

nineball · Post by **nineball** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:56 pm

i have been searching around for a lift as well, but haven;t seen anything for that cheap. got a link?

side note, the lift i have for the bike was worth the cost after the first oil change. no more rolling the bike onto an old set of rotors to lift it enough to get the jack under to drain the oil. ride up, crank the chock, push a button and bring it up a few feet into the air. heaven. i could actually take a ride right after and not sit around waiting for my back to return to normal. i really want a hydraulic lift of some sort for the cars now.