Tranny ATX to MTX swap...!!!!! HELP!!

keeders08 · Post by **keeders08** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:15 pm

I could use a COMPLETE list of what I need from an MTX to swap the auto out of my car...

-Transmisson
-pedal, cables
-ECU
-Possibly the gauge cluster

Anything else!?!?

Please Help!

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:08 pm

- Clutch (of course)

- the CORRECT bell housing for your setup (Hydraulic ?)

- If you are going to use the 'correct' hydralically-assisted clutch, you'll need to get the slave cylinder for that as well, and associated hardware.

- The correct BOLTS for the flywheel ( I *think* the ones for an ATX are different) .... hopefully someone can confirm this....

- correct AXLE SHAFT for the Driver's side. (Will need to be changed)

- Shifter

- different Neutral Safety switch

I know there is other stuff; this is what I came up with, "off the top of my head".

-Nick

keeders08 · Post by **keeders08** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:41 am

IS THIS a STICKY subject or sumthing? nobody likes this topic lol

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:07 pm

I know the the ATX to MTX swap is pretty well covered in the Archives out on "The.Org" (Neons.Org.)

Although it is written up for 1st gen Neons, the 2nd gen MTX swap should be very very similar.

The main differences between the two generations would be: (that I know of)
- Hydraulically assisted clutch & slave cylinder
- PCM changes (if you have the Sentry key setup, this may complicate things)

I'm sure that others on this board have successfully done ATX to MTX swaps on their 2nd gens..... Hopefully they will find this thread and be able to give some more insight.

Free bump for you !!

-Nick

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:20 pm

Well, the last MTX conversion I did was a '93 Shadow 3.0

As far as what you would need....

I am assuming you have a donor car? If so, most everything should be there. The hard parts would probably be...

Pedal bracket assembly (though it should bolt in, just a pain to get to)

Mounting clutch reservoir and running lines (again, should have provisions in your car for this)

Possible PCM swap. The MTX doesn't rely on the PCM for anything, but your ATX does. If you were to do the swap, but leave the PCM in place, you would probably throw every code known to man. *Edit..maybe not, since there is a separate TCM there, but may still communicate with the PCM...have to check on that too

I'm sure there is more, like I believe you would have to change both axles, but I can check that tomorrow for you.

*Edit...From '02 to '05 the axles are the same # for manual or automatic trans...'01 lists the ECB and ECH engines as different axles, but I'm not sure why...

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:43 am

if you keep your atx pcm, you will have a low 4k rev limit, which will suck, you need an mtx one from your year car..

heres some good posts about parts needed, but i think i read somewhere if your 03+ neon you HAVE to do the hydrualic swap setup from an 03+ neon. this i cannot confirm though. maybe someoen else can.

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=10 ... swap+parts

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=4509&highlight=

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:17 am

I believe all '01-'05 hydraulic systems are the same, but I can check that too...

*Edit...the clutch master cylinder and line assembly is the same from '01-'05...part#4668631AD, MSRP $109.00

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:29 pm

Danteneon wrote: *Edit...From '02 to '05 the axles are the same # for manual or automatic trans...'01 lists the ECB and ECH engines as different axles, but I'm not sure why...

Stoooopid question:

What is the difference between the "ECB" and "ECH" engine ??

I can tell you what an E-58 Ddg. Aspen is, or a E-86 Ply.Fury.... but I don't know all the newer engine codes.... yet.

-Nick

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:37 pm

NickKo wrote:
Danteneon wrote: *Edit...From '02 to '05 the axles are the same # for manual or automatic trans...'01 lists the ECB and ECH engines as different axles, but I'm not sure why...
Stoooopid question:
What is the difference between the "ECB" and "ECH" engine ??

I can tell you what an E-58 Ddg. Aspen is, or a E-86 Ply.Fury.... but I don't know all the newer engine codes.... yet.

-Nick

"ECB" = 2.0 standard issue "ECH" = Magnum

I'm not sure but I think the 2004 ATX's are controled through the PCM. IIRC they eliminated the TCM/PCM combo. Cost cutting FTL!!

keeders08 · Post by **keeders08** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:21 am

occasional demons wrote:
NickKo wrote:
Danteneon wrote: *Edit...From '02 to '05 the axles are the same # for manual or automatic trans...'01 lists the ECB and ECH engines as different axles, but I'm not sure why...
Stoooopid question:
What is the difference between the "ECB" and "ECH" engine ??

I can tell you what an E-58 Ddg. Aspen is, or a E-86 Ply.Fury.... but I don't know all the newer engine codes.... yet.

-Nick
"ECB" = 2.0 standard issue "ECH" = Magnum

I'm not sure but I think the 2004 ATX's are controled through the PCM. IIRC they eliminated the TCM/PCM combo. Cost cutting FTL!!

Ok well this car is a 2001 and up swappin its tranny to a 2004....
I understand its going to somewhat be a pain in my butt but i really could care less...

ne more info is appreciated!

EDIT: Also this car up takin the 5spd from has a PT Cruiser clutch...

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:31 pm

keeders08 wrote: Ok well this car is a 2001 and up swappin its tranny to a 2004....
I understand its going to somewhat be a pain in my butt but i really could care less...

EDIT: Also this car up takin the 5spd from has a PT Cruiser clutch...

This is GOOD news.

The 2004 MTX tranny will work just fine.
And in 2001, the trans was not controlled by the PCM, which makes swapping easier.

Another free bump for you.

-Nick

keeders08 · Post by **keeders08** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:43 pm

NickKo wrote:
keeders08 wrote: Ok well this car is a 2001 and up swappin its tranny to a 2004....
I understand its going to somewhat be a pain in my butt but i really could care less...

EDIT: Also this car up takin the 5spd from has a PT Cruiser clutch...
This is GOOD news.

The 2004 MTX tranny will work just fine.
And in 2001, the trans was not controlled by the PCM, which makes swapping easier.

Another free bump for you.

-Nick

so whats that mean? is there a separate control module on the 2001 for its MTX?

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:10 pm

keeders08 wrote:so whats that mean? is there a separate control module on the 2001 for its MTX?

NO separate control module for the MTX trans itself.... that is the good news.

So, once you get an MTX PCM from a 2001 with MTX, you will be fine.
There is no 'separate' controller for the MTX trans to worry about.
(because they are manually shifted, unlike the 4-spd.automatics).

The only transmissions that had a transmission controller were the 4-speed ATX's (to control shifting, etc.)

-Nick

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:18 pm

NickKo wrote:
keeders08 wrote:so whats that mean? is there a separate control module on the 2001 for its MTX?
NO separate control module for the MTX trans itself.... that is the good news.

So, once you get an MTX PCM from a 2001 with MTX, you will be fine.
There is no 'separate' controller for the MTX trans to worry about.
(because they are manually shifted, unlike the 4-spd.automatics).

The only transmissions that had a transmission controller were the 4-speed ATX's (to control shifting, etc.)

-Nick

Of course, that could mean extra work as well....

If you switch PCM's from the '01 MTX car, you will have to think about things like SKIM compatibility (does the '01 car have SKIM [gray key}), power features, etc. Still very doable, but stuff to think about.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:42 pm

Danteneon wrote:Of course, that could mean extra work as well....

If you switch PCM's from the '01 MTX car, you will have to think about things like SKIM compatibility (does the '01 car have SKIM [gray key}), power features, etc.

Dante,
When you say "SKIM", are you referring to the so-called "Sentry" system, that requires the special "sentry" key ??

So, what you are saying is, to shop carefully and AVOID getting a (used) PCM with the "SKIM" or 'sentry' feature, and not have to put up with the added EXPENSE (and hassle) of getting the special "sentry" key ......

Is this correct ??

-Nick

keeders08 · Post by **keeders08** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:12 pm

I have the 2001 PCM, and my stock PCM... should i find a 2001 PCM from a car with power options or did i take what u said the wrong way??

Keep me posted up on this, i'm taking any opinions/facts i can get b4 i do this, i wanna get it done soon!!

Ive never done a full tranny swap before.. so um tryin to make this as painless as possible...

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:42 pm

keeders08 wrote:I have the 2001 PCM, and my stock PCM... should i find a 2001 PCM from a car with power options or did i take what u said the wrong way??

Keep me posted up on this, i'm taking any opinions/facts i can get b4 i do this, i wanna get it done soon!!

I don't know when the"sentry" or SKIM feature became an option on the 2nd gen Neons.... I think it was in 2001 ??

Does your car (the 2001) have the 'special' SKIM key now ???

Another thing:
Keeders, have you been following this thread ???

Here's some more really useful information.....

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=10044

Excellent info .....

-Nick

keeders08 · Post by **keeders08** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:57 pm

NickKo wrote:
keeders08 wrote:I have the 2001 PCM, and my stock PCM... should i find a 2001 PCM from a car with power options or did i take what u said the wrong way??

Keep me posted up on this, i'm taking any opinions/facts i can get b4 i do this, i wanna get it done soon!!
I don't know when the"sentry" or SKIM feature became an option on the 2nd gen Neons.... I think it was in 2001 ??

Does your car (the 2001) have the 'special' SKIM key now ???

Another thing:
Keeders, have you been following this thread ???

Here's some more really useful information.....

http://forum.2GN.org/viewtopic.php?t=10044

Excellent info .....

-Nick

I have not been to that thread i dont think...
thanks tho

uhm, i have a Black key for the 2001, and a gray key or w.e that color is for my 2004...

patiofurnituregt · Post by **patiofurnituregt** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:58 am

Im pretty sure it was in 2003 they switched to SKIM, it also seemed to be the year with the most changes.

I think that you may need an 03 and up pcm, because youll have sentry key issues, due to your gauge cluster, ignition...cuz the all have to be matching VIN, so the computer doesnt get pissed.

Im currently doing an SRT-4 T-850 swap into my sohc neon, and I've ran into the PCM problem. I have a 2000, so I need to find a 00' -02 MTX PCM.

Does anyone know how easy it is to do the neutral safety switch fix on an ATX PCM????
because I've heard from some people that it will work just fine after the mod

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:10 pm

i have factory skim on my 2002..

keeders08 · Post by **keeders08** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:48 pm

patiofurnituregt wrote:Im pretty sure it was in 2003 they switched to SKIM, it also seemed to be the year with the most changes.

I think that you may need an 03 and up pcm, because youll have sentry key issues, due to your gauge cluster, ignition...cuz the all have to be matching VIN, so the computer doesnt get pissed.

Im currently doing an SRT-4 T-850 swap into my sohc neon, and I've ran into the PCM problem. I have a 2000, so I need to find a 00' -02 MTX PCM.

Does anyone know how easy it is to do the neutral safety switch fix on an ATX PCM????
because I've heard from some people that it will work just fine after the mod

theres ways around using a neutral safety button...

im plannin on not using one...unless the shop tells me they can easily do it

as far as SKIM... i think um f*cked

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm

i know for sure that an atx computer will run an mtx car. just not the other way around.. since the atx is computer controlled, and clearly a mtx is not..