ACR Caught Fire Tonight

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:58 am

Yep... just like the title says, the car caught fire under the dash and in the center HVAC controls... I was driving and hit a small bump and my lights went dim, so I immediately checked my Volt Gauge which showed about 10-11v, and I knew something was up. I hit my high beams to see what happened to the brightness of the lights and sure enough, nothing. My engine began to wain a little and then suddenly, smoke rolled out of the HVAC console. There was so much smoke my entire car was filled with smoke so bad that I could not see the person sitting in my passenger seat nor out the front window.

I assume it is due to that stupid problem some talk about their steering column harness melting. I am going to keep a log here of what I take apart and find, as well as what I do to fix it, if anything is able to be fixed as well as pictures of the damage and fixing process.

On a positive note, I have an 01 Plymouth Neon in my local pick'n'pull which has yet to be picked or pulled, as well as a place to park it and pull it apart and keep it safe while she is out of commission. We will see what happens.

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:18 am

Damn that sucks.... all the best in getting things worked out asap

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:08 am

Wow, that would be pretty scary.

Glad that you were able to keep things under control.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:33 am

WTF ??

Yes, please DO let us know what you find.

Question: Is this "steering column harness melting" supposed to be a common issue ??
That is the first I have heard of this ......

-Nick

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:08 am

like the mfs switch possibly? i've heard of quite a few ppl who were having electrical problems, turns out their MFS wiring has melted a bit.. possibly from too small of a ground wire.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:10 am

Sorry to hear that Andrew, definately not good news at all.

Prayin its nothing major and can be fixed.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:15 am

I'm glad you got it under control before it got too bad. My car doesn't want to loose a sibling!

Good luck man

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:41 pm

Dang it! That sucks something aweful. I guess you should feel lucky though. Last week a courier pulled into our lot delivering a $45,000 Audi A8L. And the car was on fire. The idiot didn't even know. Something had gotten caught on the cat convertor, got hot, caught on fire, and proceeded to melt enough important electrical stuff that the entire driveline stopped working as soon as he parked it, and the electronically controlled air suspension crapped out. Got a rough estimate for $15,000 dollar repair bill. Anyway. Do you have insurance that will cover any of your costs? Let me know if there is anything I can do to help you get her fixed back up.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:04 pm

This is a common problem... most of the people on here probably have theirs melting but it would never be a problem. I have never heard of them actually catching fire though. Please keep us all informed.

The connector in reference is the 20 pin Grey connector that connects to the MFS. The side that melts always seems to be the side that has the fog lights on it. (the thicker blue wire on the left)

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:50 pm

2k1MotorSport wrote:This is a common problem... most of the people on here probably have theirs melting but it would never be a problem. I have never heard of them actually catching fire though. Please keep us all informed.

The connector in reference is the 20 pin Grey connector that connects to the MFS. The side that melts always seems to be the side that has the fog lights on it. (the thicker blue wire on the left)

2k1MotorSport, THANK YOU for the excellent info.

On the 2nd photo that you posted, it looks like there is already some heat-related distortion on that plug !!

Gilly02, WHICH GROUND wire are you referring to ??

-Nick

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:43 pm

Is that the wire people tap into for the "fog light mod" Hopefully thats not the case.

double00neon · Post by **double00neon** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:28 am

mine melted too and now when i turn my headlights on my wipers come on very very slowly and it burns out the wiper motor is it a big job to swtich this

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:42 am

I'm sure it would be an involved job since you have to splice all the wires back together if you were to swap out the connector.
I just sold one a few weeks ago. I can get more but i don't think that they have the fog option. I still have one more at my house.
Maybe BRR or Danteneon can chime in on a part number. If not next time i goto the junk yard I can see what kind of condition the other connectors are in.

As for the "fog light mod", i don't think that it would be that cause of the melting... that would be a DCX problem.

NickKo: you can see the melting in both pics.. It would be the yellowish discoloration/cracks.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:47 pm

Welp, here is the verdict, and sorry for not posting pics yet, but I was too elated to get much done. Yes, this means good news.

I have a switch on my center console that I use for an exterior light for my Car topper for work. It was hooked up to the battery, went into the firewall, ran along the AC ventalation piping, and into the center console. It has been hooked up for a year now and no problems. Somehow it got grounded out at the grommet at the firewall, and caught fire, which burned all the way down the wire, melted some other wires and all the way into the switch. I had turned off the car at the first sign of a problem (which was the lights dimming) and I think it saved what potentially could have been:

A) burned everything under the dash
B) burned everything under and in the steering column
C) burned all my stereo stuff in the center console
D) Fried my electrical system
E) caught fire to the engine bay
F) blew up the car

All I had to do was replace most of the wires behind the center HVAC controls, re-run the wires under the steering column and dash, and replace the switch and wires running to my car topper.

Not bad, all in all I spent more money than needed, but it costs less than $100.

I will post the few pics I have of the culprit and its mess.

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:01 pm

Glad everything worked out for ya

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:05 pm

Ok, first things first...Good deal on a simple fix! glad to know it wasn't more serious!

2k1MotorSport wrote:I'm sure it would be an involved job since you have to splice all the wires back together if you were to swap out the connector.
I just sold one a few weeks ago. I can get more but i don't think that they have the fog option. I still have one more at my house.
Maybe BRR or Danteneon can chime in on a part number. If not next time i goto the junk yard I can see what kind of condition the other connectors are in.

As for the "fog light mod", i don't think that it would be that cause of the melting... that would be a DCX problem.

NickKo: you can see the melting in both pics.. It would be the yellowish discoloration/cracks.

And for the connector (since it was asked) Part #5183442AA..msrp $58.10

It is pricey compared to other connectors we sell, but eh. This repair package comes with the wires for cars with fogs as well, but if you don't have then, you have extra wires laying about. And yes, when you run fogs on cars that don't have them, and overload that circuit, it will melt (it happened to me on my '00)

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:03 pm

kc2002acr wrote:Welp, here is the verdict, and sorry for not posting pics yet, but I was too elated to get much done. Yes, this means good news.

I have a switch on my center console that I use for an exterior light for my Car topper for work. It was hooked up to the battery, went into the firewall, ran along the AC ventalation piping, and into the center console. It has been hooked up for a year now and no problems. Somehow it got grounded out at the grommet at the firewall, and caught fire, which burned all the way down the wire, melted some other wires and all the way into the switch. I had turned off the car at the first sign of a problem (which was the lights dimming) and I think it saved what potentially could have been:

A) burned everything under the dash
B) burned everything under and in the steering column
C) burned all my stereo stuff in the center console
D) Fried my electrical system
E) caught fire to the engine bay
F) blew up the car

All I had to do was replace most of the wires behind the center HVAC controls, re-run the wires under the steering column and dash, and replace the switch and wires running to my car topper.

Not bad, all in all I spent more money than needed, but it costs less than $100.

I will post the few pics I have of the culprit and its mess.

DAMN you are lucky indeed !!

Danteneon wrote:Ok, first things first...Good deal on a simple fix! glad to know it wasn't more serious!

Danteneon wrote:And yes, when you run fogs on cars that don't have them, and overload that circuit, it will melt (it happened to me on my '00)

Dante - THANK YOU very much for the warning !!!

IMPORTANT QUESTION: My brother and I are planning to add (factory) foglights to our 2000..... IS THERE A WAY TO AVOID frying the wiring ??
How would you suggest avoiding this problem ??

Should we bypass the factory wiring, and make our own circuit for the fogs ??

Thanks again for the input & valuable lessons thus far.

-Nick

latief · Post by **latief** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:23 pm

Danteneon wrote:Ok, first things first...Good deal on a simple fix! glad to know it wasn't more serious!

2k1MotorSport wrote:I'm sure it would be an involved job since you have to splice all the wires back together if you were to swap out the connector.
I just sold one a few weeks ago. I can get more but i don't think that they have the fog option. I still have one more at my house.
Maybe BRR or Danteneon can chime in on a part number. If not next time i goto the junk yard I can see what kind of condition the other connectors are in.

As for the "fog light mod", i don't think that it would be that cause of the melting... that would be a DCX problem.

NickKo: you can see the melting in both pics.. It would be the yellowish discoloration/cracks.
And for the connector (since it was asked) Part #5183442AA..msrp $58.10 It is pricey compared to other connectors we sell, but eh. This repair package comes with the wires for cars with fogs as well, but if you don't have then, you have extra wires laying about. And yes, when you run fogs on cars that don't have them, and overload that circuit, it will melt (it happened to me on my '00)

Ok, I was the one who bought the pigtail from 2k1motorsport a while back(thanks man), i messed with this for a while, and the melting has nothing to do with foglight option or not. i ran my car for a while without the steering shroud, and my car has no fogs, the back side of the MFS gets super-hot (and i mean insanely hot here) when you turn your lights on, period. flawed design on behalf of Chrysler, and i am surprised they have not recalled it. and yes, mine was also melted although i have no fogs.....

something is not right with MFS design iself in my opinion , and i bet that anyone who keeps his lights on during driving, or does a lot of long distance high-way driving with the lights on will have a melted connector to a certain extent....

although too late now for a recall, it should have been one...

kc2002acr, good to hear that no seriuos damage happned man ..

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:42 pm

Dante - THANK YOU very much for the warning !!!

IMPORTANT QUESTION: My brother and I are planning to add (factory) foglights to our 2000..... IS THERE A WAY TO AVOID frying the wiring ??
How would you suggest avoiding this problem ??

Should we bypass the factory wiring, and make our own circuit for the fogs ??

Thanks again for the input & valuable lessons thus far.

-Nick

Ok, some more info...

Yes, it is true that the design on these switches/harnesses leave a lot to be desired, but the majority of failures to this connector is from...

1) Running the headlamps with the high-beam switch pulled back to run low and hi beams together

2) Running a fog circuit off the parking light/headlamp circuit w/o a relay

3) Running higher wattage headlamp bulbs

The Mopar accessory fog lamp kit came with a replacement headlamp switch with the fog lamp control, as well as the added wiring to run a separate circuit for the fogs. The non fog lamp headlamp switch will not take very much extra load at all. Yes it is a bad design, but it normally doesn't have problems on it's own.

NickKo, if you are adding fogs to your '00, are you getting a donor from a fog equipped Neon? If so, get the switch and either get as much of the column harness as you can (big PITA), or wire in the fog circuit carefully using a relay to take the load off the switch. I don't think I have the diagram for the Mopar fog kit still, but I will look. It will help a lot in figuring the right way to do it

latief wrote:something is not right with MFS design iself in my opinion , and i bet that anyone who keeps his lights on during driving, or does a lot of long distance high-way driving with the lights on will have a melted connector to a certain extent....

although too late now for a recall, it should have been one...

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm saying "You don't know what you are talking about". I agree with you to an extent. My '00 Neon's MFS also got VERY warm. It had 76K on it with no problems, until I tried (the wrong way) to wire up fogs using the Mopar kit, but was lazy about running the circuit..."why should I do all of that? There is a perfectly good wire right here?"

All I'm saying is that I haven't but maybe 5 melted MFS across the entire Chrysler line total, and 3 of those were because of the reasons I stated earlier.

Just my .02...don't flame me too bad. Remember, this is KC2002ACR's post

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:54 pm

Latief and Danteneon, Thanks again guys, for the great info.

Yes, I'll avoid using the 'factory' wiring for the fogs and give them their own (separate) relay.

Dante, if you can find the wiring diagram you were referring to, that would be awesome.

Thanks again !!

-Nick

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:59 pm

No problem...might take me a day or two, but if I have it, I'll find it

latief · Post by **latief** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:43 am

Danteneon wrote:
Dante - THANK YOU very much for the warning !!!

IMPORTANT QUESTION: My brother and I are planning to add (factory) foglights to our 2000..... IS THERE A WAY TO AVOID frying the wiring ??
How would you suggest avoiding this problem ??

Should we bypass the factory wiring, and make our own circuit for the fogs ??

Thanks again for the input & valuable lessons thus far.

-Nick
Ok, some more info...

Yes, it is true that the design on these switches/harnesses leave a lot to be desired, but the majority of failures to this connector is from...

1) Running the headlamps with the high-beam switch pulled back to run low and hi beams together

2) Running a fog circuit off the parking light/headlamp circuit w/o a relay

3) Running higher wattage headlamp bulbs

The Mopar accessory fog lamp kit came with a replacement headlamp switch with the fog lamp control, as well as the added wiring to run a separate circuit for the fogs. The non fog lamp headlamp switch will not take very much extra load at all. Yes it is a bad design, but it normally doesn't have problems on it's own.

NickKo, if you are adding fogs to your '00, are you getting a donor from a fog equipped Neon? If so, get the switch and either get as much of the column harness as you can (big PITA), or wire in the fog circuit carefully using a relay to take the load off the switch. I don't think I have the diagram for the Mopar fog kit still, but I will look. It will help a lot in figuring the right way to do it

latief wrote:something is not right with MFS design iself in my opinion , and i bet that anyone who keeps his lights on during driving, or does a lot of long distance high-way driving with the lights on will have a melted connector to a certain extent....

although too late now for a recall, it should have been one...
Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm saying "You don't know what you are talking about". I agree with you to an extent. My '00 Neon's MFS also got VERY warm. It had 76K on it with no problems, until I tried (the wrong way) to wire up fogs using the Mopar kit, but was lazy about running the circuit..."why should I do all of that? There is a perfectly good wire right here?"

All I'm saying is that I haven't but maybe 5 melted MFS across the entire Chrysler line total, and 3 of those were because of the reasons I stated earlier.

Just my .02...don't flame me too bad. Remember, this is KC2002ACR's post

No flaming man, on the contrary, i appreciate your feedback, as i am really a newbie at all this.....

yes, my stock MFS ran 110,000 miles without anything happening, and i do think that rarely does anything happen to these even if you have fogs, but in the case when it does, it is not good....

despite the MFS functioning fine, my connector was melted, sure, the car did not catch fire (until now at least), but when i was messing with the connector it fell apart so badly with even the slightest pressure. the left side of the connector (when you are looking out of your car) was the melted part , that is actually the opposite side to where the stock-fog wiring plugs in the connector...

what gets warm is the back side of the MFS, maybe it gets warmer if you have fogs plugged in, but there is a pattern here IMHO. the pigtail in the picture above, and the one in my car melted starting on the same side, despite the fog option or not ......

nothing really scientific in all this, just my personal observations

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:16 am

Well, you may be more right than I had thought

I looked up the headlamp switch to see if the # was the same through the years, and they superseded the '00 up to the later models switch, but Chrysler has also tacked this parts bulletin to the parts listing...

Tech Tip Part Description: Multi-Function Switch

Tech Tip Description: If gray 20-way Multi-Function Switch connector is also damaged and requires replacement, wiring kit 05183442AA is available, without replacing the entire wiring harness.

Obviously they must replace these things more often than I realized.

latief · Post by **latief** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:33 am

did you ever see this one?

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=16 ... +connector

sorry kc2002acr for the thread hijack !!!

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:36 am

hey no prob guys, I think the discussion is fine, we need people toi understand that this happens, this is what I thought had happened to me for sure, I was just lucky it was not the case.

on a side note, to run the fogs on a non-fog car, you need the MFS from a fogg'd car and the steering column harness? If you have the MFS from the fogg'd harness but not anything from the steering column (which I could get with little problem) what would it take to wire it up to work like the stock switch does? How would I wire up the relay? Should I fuse it as well? Any answers greatly appreciated. We could sticky this if these answers come, mainly because people fog light their noon-fogg'd cars all the time, and this could help avoid melted harnesses in the future, or fires in general!

latief · Post by **latief** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:19 pm

kc2002acr wrote:hey no prob guys, I think the discussion is fine, we need people toi understand that this happens, this is what I thought had happened to me for sure, I was just lucky it was not the case.

on a side note, to run the fogs on a non-fog car, you need the MFS from a fogg'd car and the steering column harness? If you have the MFS from the fogg'd harness but not anything from the steering column (which I could get with little problem) what would it take to wire it up to work like the stock switch does? How would I wire up the relay? Should I fuse it as well? Any answers greatly appreciated. We could sticky this if these answers come, mainly because people fog light their noon-fogg'd cars all the time, and this could help avoid melted harnesses in the future, or fires in general!

It is actually easier than i expected, the hard part is to find wire ends/butts/ connectors (whatever the correct name is

) to plug into the MFS pigtail so that you could utilize the stock MFS. i just started this like 2 months or so ago, using the stock circuit as detailed in the OEM Fog-light kit installation. I will post these directions in a separate post later tonight when i go home, but i did not finish mine yet, as i still have to get the lights to utilize the MFS. currently they come on whenever the headlights come in, still cool

i have been running this setup for 2 months nearly now with no problems or burnouts (no relay).... i guess the key is to insure you have stock power draw, so no super bright lights or anything.....

as for parts needed, 1-MFS with the fog-option. 2-wire of your choice. 3-Fuse holder with 10amps fuse . 4-end connectors that will fit into the grey pigtial (this is by far the hardest part to find), i will post pictures of these later 5-front fog light wiring harness or you can make your own, but you will need the right sockets....

just as a side note, fogs on our cars are really cosmetic, not really that powerfull so don't expect increased visibility or anything unless you are actually using them for fog !!

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:27 pm

latief wrote:just as a side note, fogs on our cars are really cosmetic, not really that powerfull so don't expect increased visibility or anything unless you are actually using them for fog !!

Thanks for the info.

I'll probably go aftermarket then.
I would still like to run these on a factory MFS.... it will give me something else to look out for at the junkyards.....

but I will definitely use a separate relay !!

-Nick

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:28 pm

latief wrote:did you ever see this one?

http://forum.2GN.org/viewtopic.php?t=16 ... +connector

sorry kc2002acr for the thread hijack !!!

Nope, I hadn't come across that one yet. Lots of good info there. I'm going to look for the Mopar instruction sheet tonight...I should still have it (I don't throw factory instructions away). Latief, are you posting the instruction sheet up?

latief · Post by **latief** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:42 pm

Danteneon wrote:
latief wrote:did you ever see this one?

http://forum.2GN.org/viewtopic.php?t=16 ... +connector

sorry kc2002acr for the thread hijack !!!
Nope, I hadn't come across that one yet. Lots of good info there. I'm going to look for the Mopar instruction sheet tonight...I should still have it (I don't trow factory instructions away). Latief, are you posting the instruction sheet up?

yes, a guy i knew bought the kit, so i asked him if you could email me pictures of the directions (he is not local to me) so he did, he took pictures of each page of the directions.. they were so helpful in wiring up the fogs, although as i said i did not go all the way since i was missing some end-connectors, but at least you understand the logic behind it, and where everything should go

I will try to post the pictures up tonight, if you have better (clearer) directions, maybe we'll switch them out later....

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:04 pm

Cool man. I know NickKo would find them helpful as well as others out there. If I do have them still, I'll put them on my scanner and load them up that way.