Calling all mechanics!

joseph_hac · Post by **joseph_hac** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:51 pm

Hello,

I have been having a problem with my stock 2003 R/T that the stealership has been unable to fix after multiple visits over the passed few months. Enough is enough. I'm just going to list every symptom I can think of and hope the automotive geniuses here can point me in the right direction.

- In late Summer, I noticed my car would make a strange whining sound that goes up and down with the RPMs. I would here this noise during one drive, then not the next. It seemed pretty random. When winter hit, the sound would always be there.

-In late Fall, I noticed my car would stutter a bit at idle. It felt like just a little jolt or shake. When it would stutter, I could here a little chirp or squeak. Also, the headlights would dim momentarily. To me, it seemed as though a belt was jumping off its track. When I hold the RPMs just above idle ~1100RPM, the stuttering goes away. Also, if I have a lot of accessories on (defroster, etc.) the stuttering gets a lot worst.

- On a few occasions, my car would have trouble starting. I would have to turn the ignition for ~20 seconds while giving it gas before it would fire up. It was as if the "belt" was off its track and it took a while to jump back on.

- When idling at a red or waiting for traffic to clear to make a left, the car will stutter as previously mentioned. When it was finally time to go, I would hit the gas, but it seemed as though barely any power would get to the wheels. The car just lurched forward for a second or two before regaining power. This is very scary when making a left through a gap in traffic!

I took the car into the dealership. They couldn't replicate the issues I was having, so they tightened all of the belts, unhooked the A/C compressor belt, etc., charged me a $95 diagnostic fee, and sent me on my way. They told me to bring the car back when the problem was more noticeable.

- More recently, the car has begun to hesitate while in gear, even at highway speeds. If I am about to pass someone and floor it, the car will start stuttering and not go anywhere for a few seconds. Also, if the engine is under a big load, like 4th gear and under 2000RPM and I hit the gas, it will hesitate.

- The other day after work, my car wouldn't start. After a couple of persistent attempts, it finally fired up. After about 20 seconds, however, it threw an engine code. I took the car to the dealership and had the service manager come out with me on a drive. He insisted that the whining sound I hear is normal, and the hesitation is a misfire. I ended up not getting the car repaired because I refused to pay the $95 diagnostic fee a second time for the same problem. When I got home, I checked the engine code myslef, and it was P0300-MULTIPLE CYLINDER MISFIRE).

So the service manager was right about the misfiring. What bothers me though is that the engine light only came on that one time after the rough start. Wouldn't it come on anytime there was a misfire? Also, the misfiring doesn't explain the whining noise, the chirping/sqeaking when the car is idling, or the dimming headlights. I'm not sure if the misfire is at the heart of this mess, or if the misfire was the result of another problem.

I plan to replace the coil pack, ignition wires, and spark plugs this weekend, but I want to hear what everybody else thinks before I spend the money replacing parts that may not be the problem.

Sorry about the long @$$ post. I guess it sort of reflects the long, painful, ordeal I have been in with this car. Any help or input you could offer would be very much appreciated.

asanti · Post by **asanti** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:39 pm

Do you have an UDP? Some UDP's like the AF/X units are known to squeal during certain times of the year. Have you checked the bolts on the alternator also? If any of the tensioner or locking bolts are loose, the belt will squeal while it free-spins until it catches. Just 2 quick points you might want to check out.

Later
Allex

joseph_hac · Post by **joseph_hac** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:21 pm

asanti wrote:Do you have an UDP? Some UDP's like the AF/X units are known to squeal during certain times of the year. Have you checked the bolts on the alternator also? If any of the tensioner or locking bolts are loose, the belt will squeal while it free-spins until it catches. Just 2 quick points you might want to check out.

Later
Allex

I don't have a UDP. My car is bone stock. I will check the tensioner though. That may be the reason for the annoying whining sound. The sound makes me want to drive the car into a brick wall!

oklamopar · Post by **oklamopar** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:22 am

wheres the whining noise? front or rear of car?
My 02 R/T did a misfire code right before the fuel pump went, which would kinda explain the crank but no start. that and my fuel pump was louder than it should have been.
the lights dimming kinda sounds like battery/alternator problem.
those are my 2 thoughts.

joseph_hac · Post by **joseph_hac** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:32 am

oklamopar wrote:wheres the whining noise? front or rear of car?
My 02 R/T did a misfire code right before the fuel pump went, which would kinda explain the crank but no start. that and my fuel pump was louder than it should have been.
the lights dimming kinda sounds like battery/alternator problem.
those are my 2 thoughts.

The whining is coming from the front-passenger side. I always suspected it was a belt, but the dealer ship checked and tightened all the belts, but the noise didn't go away.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:56 am

The whining, probably a tensioner for the ac/ps belt, but also could be your alt going out. The misfire is easily fixed with a set of plugs/wires and dielectric grease...

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:15 am

here is a great review on wires:
http://www.modernperformance.com/produc ... 50ba8d9373

As for plugs get either copper or iridium. Iridiums tend to be $6 more per plug than the coppers tho.

latief · Post by **latief** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:00 am

sounds like a coil pack to me......

the wining, and misfire could be completely separate issues....

what millage do you have on the car?

asanti · Post by **asanti** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:07 am

Misfires are usually caused by frayed or arced spark plug wires (at least it's always the culprit in my situations

). Take it step by step: 1st replace the plugs, then the wires, then the coil if the problem's still there after each change. As BRR said make sure you use dielectric grease on the spark plug boots to prevent the arcing and shorting of the wires in the future as well. As far as the whining, doublecheck the belts to make sure they're tight, and check to see if the P/S belt tensioner is on it's way out as well. That's all I can think off off the top of my head as I sit here at work...

Later
Allex

joseph_hac · Post by **joseph_hac** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:54 pm

latief wrote:sounds like a coil pack to me......

the wining, and misfire could be completely separate issues....

what millage do you have on the car?

My car has about 96,000km on it. I'm going to replace the coil pack, plug wires and spark plugs. I'm planning on going with MSD pack and wires, and NGK Indium (sp?) plugs. Hopefully I can track down the parts locally tomorrow.

I had a mechanically-inclined friend of mine take a look at the whining sound today. He thinks the power steering pump needs to be replaced. It does make a bit of a weird noise when the steering wheel is turned, but I don't personally think its the culprit. This whining sound is constant and is in sync with the engine RPMs.

OB · Post by OB » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:36 am

The entire first issue sounds like a bad alternator to me. Hard starting, whining sound, dim lights... Check charging voltage at the positive post of the alt.

Misfires can be caused by a lot of different things. Changing spark plugs, wires, and coil can be a good way to eliminate the ignition system as the culprit. Faulty fuel injectors/ pump/pressure regulator can cause the engine to misfire as well, both lean and rich depending on the issue. A 5-gas emissions test is a great way to find out what kind of issue you're dealing with. It's impossibile to diagnose it without some kind of data from the engine.

-Devil- · Post by **-Devil-** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:34 am

from my experience ... i would pull the alt off and get it checked ... then replace the belts and tensioner ... and go from there ...

have you checked the voltage at the battery? .. with the car running? ... what about at 2k rpm?

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:00 am

I agree with the alternator theories. Check the output post, it may have corrosion at the case of the alt there is an insulator where the post comes through, I have had it get corrosion there and act like a resistor shorting to ground. It will get very hot if that's the case so use caution if you stick your fingers near the area. But I would think you would also have dead battery issues if that was happening. There also could be something creating a load on the system making the alt. whine. Check voltage output, and see if you can get a shop or someone with an ammeter to see what the draw is at the alternator connection while running. I woldn't think there should be too much with just the engine running, then turn stuff on and see if something is using way more than expected. Of course you can't rule out a power steering issue altogether due to the left turn problem. that could be a power steering rack issue, as the pump doesn't care what direction you are turning. there is a pressure switch in the power steering high pressure side plumbing that is supposed to signal the pcm to raise idle to prevent stalling in hard turning/low rpm. So that could be a factor also. Just more shtuff to consider....

01NeonSnooZer · Post by **01NeonSnooZer** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:09 pm

i tend to agree with most of these guys about the alternator

As for the misfires and stuttering (and this could be a long shot), look at your cam sensor on the back side of the head and see if it's leaking. If it is, that fluid could be acting as another path to ground and not letting the signal get to your pcm. Mine has a leaky cam sensor and will occaisionally hesitate in 2nd gear at about 22 mph. I don't have a tach in my car so i don't know what rpm. But like I said, this is a long shot.