length of air intake affect low end torque? cai vs short ram

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:48 pm

read through sooooooo many posts, on so many orgs, and im finding mixed results..

how does (if at all) the length of the intake from the throttle body affect low end torque?

read in some posts that a short ram will give better low end power.. and a cai will give better high end power but sacrifice some low....

also read the opposite, that the longer the intake the more low end power,

i drive an 01 atx, and im rarely on the highway, so low end is pretty important for around town driving..

i took my cai off shortly after installing for 2 reasons... i wasnt impressed with the results.. car bogged at lower rpms.. and i live in florida, and i was too paranoid with the filter out there, as theres lots of flooding..
so im back to the stock intake... and got some noticable more low end power back.

but i will add, my longest trip w/ the cai is my 20min drive to work, so i dont know if the pcm ever had enough time to adjust to the mod..

which brings me to my question in the topic, since i have an idea for a ram air, w/ghetto heat shield.. (basically cutting the entire FRONT of the airbox off). would i yeild any good results.. also is there possibility for hydrolock w/ a ram air?.. can water splash up that high and cause a problem?

ive also heard of people cutting the bottom of the airbox off to draw cooler air from underneath the front of the car...

saw a really old post claiming the closer the filter is to the throttle body the more low end, but cant find it to read what it said in full..

sorry if this is long, just trying to be detailed... any input is helpful thanx org

mitch546 · Post by **mitch546** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:16 pm

i have an 02 mtx and i took my resonator box off and just left the downpipe where its at., didnt seem to do much i find a little more air but i think cold air is gonna help the engine no matter how long or short the intake would be in my opinion. As long as your filter isnt under your airdam you should be fine with hydrolock unless you put it threw a river. LOL theres been plenty of those in florida haha my suggestion would be short ram but keep it away from heat from the engine

im working on how to accomplish that now

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:31 pm

mitch546 wrote:i have an 02 mtx

LOL theres been plenty of those in florida haha my suggestion would be short ram but keep it away from heat from the engine im working on how to accomplish that now

wish i had an mtx, hindsight is 20/20, didnt get into cars until after i got my neon.. late starter....

thats why i was thinkin of leaving the filter where its at.. but cuttin the front off the airbox and leaving the top and the sides facing the engine... was just wondering about water gettin up into THAT.. if i tried it.. or rain coming in through the front... cuz from what im thinking, it would be a pretty effective heatshield... and free....

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:06 pm

Well, I actually have some input on this for sure. I designed a front mount intake, you can see here how it looked. It looked pretty cool, and I know the engine was getting super cool fresh air no doubt. BUT, yes I noticed a huge low end difference. It wasnt good at all so I took it out put my normal CAI back on.. So I'd say yes the shorter and colder you can get it would work the best. Unless of course you have a turbo..lol... Which I myself am working on a better CAI or Ram setup.... Heheh. heres the pic that failed:

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:16 pm

too bad it didnt work out, looks like a sweet setup.... im searchin the orgs for a cheap airbox as a backup right now, i figure its at least worth a try.. was outside lookin around in there, and i dont think water will be an issue with what i want to do..

GTS · Post by **GTS** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:19 pm

Just keep the stock air box in place. Get a high flow air filter and then go to home deopt or menards and get some sort of pipe flexible or not that matches the diameter of the 90° bend coming out of the air box. Then route that pipe to the hole for the fog light. If you have fog lights then you can have it exit below the car and point forward. Then I guess drill a few more holes on the bottom of the air box so in case water does get in there it drains right out. Air box was designed with that in mind. This mod should bring air from front of the car to inside of air box. If you monitor the temp inside the box you should be able to see it drop as you go faster. At least that is my plan. Only diff I have vents on side of the bumper and one of the pipes will go to the vent.

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:34 pm

im by no means an expert, i have no fogs, so i have that option available, thought about it too.. only thing, for sake of argument, if i do happen to hit a flooded patch of road, and it happens whenever we get a hard ass rain here on some roads.. wouldnt that direct alot of water right into the airbox, and pour right over the filter before draining out the bottom?.. (or just cut off the air supply all together).. thats why i wanted to keep the filters air supply as high as possible, so i dont have to lengthen the intake.. also, the inside of the stock airbox is not smooth flowing at all, so even if i get the colder air in the closed box, its still gonna have turbulence.
of course, i may be wrong..

tamadrumr88 · Post by **tamadrumr88** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:50 pm

its called a dremel... if you decide to go with just a high air filter (in place of stock), smooth out the inside of your airbox by first breaking the main sections out with a plyers, then trim them as far down as possible with the dremel, and lastly finish it up and smooth the surface with rough sandpaper

mitch546 · Post by **mitch546** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:56 pm

Heres something i was thinking about., making the intake come from tb str8 to the upper grille??? if you put a filter on there and you know how they have those shields that help direct the air

that way all the air from the front of the car goes right into the intake and its high enough if you go threw water that high, the least of your worries is water in your intake

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:03 pm

thats basically what im tryin to accomplish, modifying the airbox.. what car is that pic from

tamadrumr88 wrote:its called a dremel... if you decide to go with just a high air filter (in place of stock), smooth out the inside of your airbox

i have the high flow clampable filter

and thats a good idea, hadnt thought of that.... i also retract my previous statement about not using the fog hole.. i think i can use that to direct cooler air to the box area, but still chop the box to do the ram air.... and eliminate all water worries, even though they may be extreme.. peace of mind is all..

mitch546 · Post by **mitch546** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:48 am

The intake is off a wrx but anything similar can be modified. I just checked on ebay to see what could work!! i modified a honda civic intake for my hyundai accent!!!! worked perfectly

DjTransifi · Post by **DjTransifi** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:46 pm

Guys I used the fog hole and one thing you need to concern yourself about is the elements. When it rains it will get wet and you will get water up there. I didn't go through any puddles. i just had a car splash the front of my car really good and some water got sucked up.. the higher it is in the fender well the less chances of water going up your filter and into places you really shouldn't have water in.. No to mention turbulence issues if there is such a thing. When I moved my CAI higher up, I noticed a smoother responce and less bogg down when it was in the fog light hole.. The picture is before I moved it up more..

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:52 pm

I talked to a guy at a shop that works on alot of Neons and as soon as he saw my Intake in my fenderwell he told me it was wayyy too low (for Florida rain). He said he has seen alot of Neons get hydrolock from the filter being that low.

I basically took a hacksaw and cut the intake down to about 6 inches and now it's sitting nicely in the engine bay.

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:06 am

true true.. thats why i took mine off. first time it rained with my intake on , it seriously rained.. lots of easily flooded roads around here.... mine was probably between the headlight and foglight hole. and probably too high to cause a problem, but i just didnt wanna worry bout it everytime it rained.....

CU_rob · Post by **CU_rob** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:27 am

aquarius I too worry about the rain and flooded roads...with hurricane season upon us as I too, being on the SC Coast, face similar exposure. I'm going to do something similar with a short ram/modified airbox type setup vs. my current DIY CAI.

I like my DIY CAI, I call it the "One-Cut CAI" or "1stGen stock intake tube modified type CAI"... the first is easier to say... I have it routed to the fender well, with the filter behind my fog light, essentially moved the filter to the location of the "black box" from the stock setup in the fender well (damn thing was a pain to get out).

I will take pictures, if I get around to doing it this weekend, and let you know what I experience/modify.

half_twisted · Post by **half_twisted** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:54 am

the shorter the intake is the more low end power you get.. i was running a home made cai that ran in the fender, rain came so i bought a special filter that has a rubber gromet on the top center f or the air temp sensor. soon as i took it out for a spin the car was jump in the drive way and my street but soon as i hit the highway it was slugish.. you might want to look into a filtet like this..
this is what i had before

then after

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:50 pm

Thats what I have on my car also, except for one thing...dont hit any water puddles, or deep water holes..it WILL suck the water right in...

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:37 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:Thats what I have on my car also, except for one thing...dont hit any water puddles, or deep water holes..it WILL suck the water right in...

which one.. the one to the foglight hole, or the one with pics shown above (filter w/ iat sensor on the end..)?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:37 pm

the one in the pics.....
I removed my fender well intake since there was no improvements...

The side effect of the intake setup you have above is listed here:
http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=3343

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:23 pm

damn,.. knowin the roads i have around here, and the weather.. grrrr... screw it, not even worth it.. i'll just have to deal with stock airbox, resonator removed.....

CU_rob · Post by **CU_rob** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:49 pm

hmm.. .you have your air sensor installed? Ha, I have it just ziptied out of the way, not even in my intake.... and not a single problem and 30-31mpg.

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am

GTS wrote:Just keep the stock air box in place. Get a high flow air filter and then go to home deopt or menards and get some sort of pipe flexible or not that matches the diameter of the 90° bend coming out of the air box. Then route that pipe to the hole for the fog light. If you have fog lights then you can have it exit below the car and point forward. Then I guess drill a few more holes on the bottom of the air box so in case water does get in there it drains right out. Air box was designed with that in mind. This mod should bring air from front of the car to inside of air box. If you monitor the temp inside the box you should be able to see it drop as you go faster. At least that is my plan. Only diff I have vents on side of the bumper and one of the pipes will go to the vent.

this is exactly what i did except i got a flex tube and ran it from the airbox exit through the left fog. car whistles at most rpm and seems a tad tad faster, though that could be me gassing it harder. i cant see how it could hurt so i'm gonna leave it like that