About Timing Belt Change

[tommigun]

Hello everybody.

Since my car is having the same symptons as donkeypuncher in that other topic I decided I'll postpone the purchase of new rims for my ride and get the timing belt done. I tried searching around, but the information is pretty scattered and I thought I'll start a new topic to ask for some questions.

Question 1: Are there any quite cheap, relatively easy mods I could consider doing while I'm at it? UDP? Motor mount inserts?

Question 2: I'm ordering most of my parts from rockauto.com since they ship to Finland. Here's a list of parts I've come up with so far, feel free to correct me if there's something unneccessary or incorrect:

- Waterpump: BOSCH Part # 96118
- Waterpump gaskets: FEL-PRO Part # 35586 & FEL-PRO Part # 35131
- Camshaft seal: FEL-PRO Part # TCS45961 {Camshaft Front Seal Set}
- Crankshaft seal: FEL-PRO Part # TCS45962 {Crankshaft Front Seal Set}
SOHC engine; Crankshaft front seal set
- Serpentine belt tensioner pulley: GATES Part # 36156

Now the timing belt section gets a bit tricky. I have no clue if I have a mechanical tensioner or a hydraulic one, so I don't know about ordering all the parts individually though getting the pulleys for both the mechanical and hydraulic ones isn't too expensive. But on the timing belt kit section this is a bit confusing to me:
- GATES Part # TCK245A {1 Timing Belt, 1 Tensioner NOTE: TCK245A and TCK245B must be used together.} W/SOHC Eng.; W/Mech. Tensioner; Includes Bracket; Interference engine application

Then there is a kit called TCK245B, otherwise the same but without the bracket. Does that "must be used together" mean I have to order both? And would this kit be similar to the one on partdinosaur?

Sorry if this has been gone through a million times. I'm such a noob I just couldn't find the info I needed anywhere.

[jT]

http://chronoscender.freeservers.com/ne ... gbelt.html

[tommigun]

Thanks for the link but I've been there already and unless I'm missing something (highly possible since I'm sometimes way too blind) it's pretty much just a guide how to change the belt + pump. It doesn't really answer any of my questions. But I appriciate the effort. It sucks that I can't find pics of those Gates' kits, it would make my life so much easier.

[Paul56]

Question 1: Are there any quite cheap, relatively easy mods I could consider doing while I'm at it? UDP? Motor mount inserts?

I tend to try to get through one issue at a time then reassemble and see how it goes for a while.

The reason being is that if you make too many changes and something does go wrong it makes it more difficult to track down exactly what it was you did that caused the issue.

Something similar to making too many modifications to code all at the same time... then the program stops working.

Take a look at your upper torque strut... is the rubber inside the mount still good? If not, then you could replace that at the same time as you will have this part off.

What about the idler pulley on your PS/AC tensioner? Is it running smoothly? If not, consider replacing that as well.

As for what type of timing belt tensioner you have... I had the same issue when preparing to get mine done. However, one Mopar parts guy suggested he could determine from my VIN what tensioner was installed before tearing it down... and he said mine was the hydraulic. I wasn't sure whether to trust that information because I have heard others (knowledgeable folks) that you really don't know for certain until you have it torn down and can see.

Good luck with the job!

[jT]

i forget where i read it.. maybe here, not sure.. that the tensioners are interchangable.. so that even if you have hydraulic you can use a mechanical.. or vice versa.. someone with more knowledge will have to put in their .02 on that

[latief]

Well, whatever your orginal part is, that should not be an issue, you will need a mechanincal tensioner off a 2004 neon...

when i looked at rock auto, for a 04 neon they have three kits, DAYCO, and the two gates you have. i think the DAYCO should work fine...

there seems to be a confusion on the Rockauto site about the gates kits as you mentioned, so i looked up the gates catalog .

http://www.gates.com/part_locator/index ... on_id=3002

i guess the one with the bracket is what you should get. i don't think you need both...

what you should be carefull about is the timing belt cover, as the back side of it changes according to the tensioner type installed....

hope this helps, you can also call rockauto, or buy a tensioner from you local dodge dealer, since -although expensive- it is a crtical part....

good luck

[tommigun]

Thanks that helped out a lot. For some reason I ended up somewhere different when I tried to search for the part at the Official Gates -site.

The dealer will without doubt be my last resort (incase importing parts from the USA will be banned). Last time I was at the local dealer I was quoted for around $1000 just for the parts needed to change the timing belt. Main reason was that if I have a mechanical tensioner they'll only sell me the full hydraulic kit priced at around 700$. They give great service and all but they're quite anal when it comes to certain issues. Like for some reason a recall campaign for the brake booster vacuum hose isn't completed on my car. I've asked about it 3 times, usual answers are "never heard of it" or "it's done already". Last time I was there they showed me the screen where all the campaigns are and it clearly said "incomplete". I asked about it and he said "yes it's done" and then the clerk went to ask a mechanic who said "we've never done any of these". But next time I'm around there I've got an ace up my sleeve...

But back on the topic, I was wondering are those cam & crank seals correct? I've picked up the front seals and those are the ones easily done at the same time as the timing belt? As opposed to the rear seals? And also, what is the difference between the timing belt tensioner and the timing belt pulley?

[latief]

Yeh, i guess for the gates site, you will have to input the info again.....

as for the dealer, that is super expensive, and why were they trying to sell you the hydraulic kit upgrade? your car is most likely hydraulic any ways (01-02) with exceptions, it changed to a mechanical tensioner in 03 +....i bought the hydraulic kit upgrade from dodge here for $350 and i considered my self ripped off then ( i was).... i guess you should stay away from your dealer then since they sound like idiots...

as for the brake booster recall, they should honor that, and you should change it since it is a safety issue (it is just a new hose by the way), i had mine done a 3 years ago....

back to the questions....
yes, your crank and cam seals are correct, the front of the engine is where the timing belt-cover is, the rear main seal will require you to drop your transmission, don't worry about that now, unless you have a big oil leak over there, it is a major job by itself, and best done when you change the clutch (if you have MTX) ....

the timing belt pulley is part of the tensioner,

A really long freaking URL, please click it here!

this is just for reference, not for our cars specifically, but the tensioner is the complete part with the blue-pulley, and the back x-shaped bracket. the pulley, will be only the pulley. in your case i would get the 2004 complete tensioner since you will be changing the whole existing setup you have .....

i would think that this is the right part to get, but i am not %100 positive,

GATES Part # TCK245A {1 Timing Belt, 1 Tensioner NOTE: TCK245A and TCK245B must be used together.}
W/SOHC Eng.; W/Mech. Tensioner; Includes Bracket; Interference engine application

again, you could call them before you place your order, or look at a different store either locally, or one that ships internationally....

maybe some of the other guys here further recommendations about this

good luck

[tommigun]

Alright thanks for your help.