Removing engine help!

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:28 am

Ok, sounds good. Thanks man, i'll let ya guys know how it goes when i work on it the next time

Thanks a bunch man!

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:11 am

When you think about it, removing the trans isn't really much work compared to removing the engine. Just remove the trans mount, pop the axles out, take off the shifter cables, and remove the trans sensor and you're done.

I think in the long run it will save you a lot of trouble, especially dealing with clearance issues while getting the engine in and out.

On a side note, it's a good idea to get the tab for the differential pin while you have it all apart. The pin likes to come loose on the t-350 when spinning the tires, but a $20 differential tab will save you a lot of money in the long run. Easy and simple preventative maintenance to keep the trans from exploding.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:13 pm

hm.... i do have an automatic trans though... not a manual one

, the thing about the trans is that the FSM said that i need to splice the lines for the transmission hose (i think trans fluid hose?) and then later on i'm suppose to buy a kit that's suppose to repair it back together. Also, if i take them both out... it would only have to be from the bottom... otherwise i need to remove the stuff that's bolted to the firewall. I know i heard people said they jack the car up high enough for the engine and trans to come out... but my jack and jack stand wasn't large enough for them to come off from the bottom.

On the other note, since i already got so far... i just wanted to give it a shot... if it really doesn't work out... i'll drop the trans also.

Since school just started today, i might need to wait a few days before i have time to actually get the hoist to get the engine out... but in the meantime i have another question... so once i get all the bolts out... including the four for the flex plate... and also removing the trans mount... do i just pull hard on each side for them to disconnect? How much of a clearance does the trans and motor need in between? also, does the trans and motor separate easily? or do i need someone pretty strong or maybe somekind of pry bar to separate them two? Thanks!

P.S. Donkeypuncher, i appreciate your suggestion though... seriously, i'm only doing it my way because i'm lazy and probably a little anxious to get it done. So, you can laugh at me when i can't get it apart. so no offense though that i didn't take your advice alright?

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:35 pm

No offense taken at all, you're the one that has to do the work, I'm just being a keyboard jockey.

For some reason I thought you had a manual

I really need to start paying more attention. The manual is simple to drop out, but an auto is gonna be a pain. To be honest, I wouldn't want to drop the trans either, especially by myself.

I had a similar problem replacing an O-ring on the water inlet tube. I was supposed to take off the intake manifold to give more clearance, but I was too lazy. It took a little bit longer, but was much easier than taking that damn manifold off.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:48 pm

so... an auto trans is harder to remove than a manual? Because back before my engine got flooded, i was thinking about a manual swap... i got the shifters and cables and stuff... only still missing the manual trans and some of the cylinders.

So, if i were to do a manual swap down the road... i guess taking out the auto trans would be a pita? and after that when i put the manual back in it should be easier then?

asanti · Post by **asanti** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:24 pm

dodgeneonzl wrote:so... an auto trans is harder to remove than a manual? Because back before my engine got flooded, i was thinking about a manual swap... i got the shifters and cables and stuff... only still missing the manual trans and some of the cylinders.

So, if i were to do a manual swap down the road... i guess taking out the auto trans would be a pita? and after that when i put the manual back in it should be easier then?

Oh, HELL yes!!

Let me put it this way: MTX is +- 90lbs, the ATX is +- 220lbs!! (the 3speed anyway)

I highly suggest getting a bud to help you pull the trans out unless you're into bench pressing or powerlifting... So to answer your question, can it be done? Yes. Is it a PITA? YES!

Later
Allex

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:45 pm

hey, sorry about not updating this thread for a while, it's been raining everytime i have a freaking day off which is wednesday, and since school started, i'm having a lot less time to work on it. Anyway, i was able to go out and take a picture of it.

Ocassional demon, when you said take the transmission mount off... do you mean this one? as in the picture?

Also, i'm ready to rent the hoist the next time i work on it, but where do you guys attach the host to on the block? Thanks guys!

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:11 pm

yes that's the mount.
If the head was off I'd use the head bolts (since they should be replaced). Maybe the front mount plate and the bellhousing bolts, if the head was on. But you would need a jack underneath to support it while getting it apart to access the belhousing. If you had two lifting straps you could wrap them around each end and lift it out that way. No bolting needed. Maybe someone who has actually removed the engine from the top can give some better insight. But I like the straps idea best. You would just need some rated for the weight. 200 lbs eagh should give a good margin, as I don't think the engine weighs 400 lbs.

my_slo_srt · Post by **my_slo_srt** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:24 pm

its hard to remove the engine remove all lines and connecters and motor mounts.. should pop right out.. loL!

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:55 pm

should pop right out? i like the sound of that, but it doesn't look like it would pop right out from the trans.... can anyone confirm this?

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:25 pm

Alright guys, i needed some help now... well, i thought i took off all of the bolts off... but apparently the motor isn't separating from the trans... can anyone list all the bolts holding the motor and trans together? or is there something which i haven't taken off? do i need to take off the axles from the trans? or anything?

My motor is now halfway out where one side is being pulled up and the other side is still bogged down because it is attached to the trans. I plan on working on it again tomorrow so if you guys have the answer, i need it by tomorrow... thanks guys!!!

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:34 am

Danteneon wrote:The picture you posted is one of the flexplate bolts. Once those are removed, the trans will separate once off the dowel locater bushings.

Be advised that removing the engine or trans separately while on jack stands is a real chore. You don't have much room to work with side to side. Also, if you haven't done so, get someone strong to help you do this. The components never come out easily even after everything is unbolted.

I would strongly advise taking the earlier suggestions and remove the engine and trans as one unit. You will thank us later.

Remember this post? What you are encountering now is why I said this earlier.

You said something about removing your axles from the trans. The axles aren't still connected to the wheel hubs as well are they? If so, you need to remove them. With the axles in place, the trans won't move enough for you to separate them.

Also, if you have removed all the trans mounting bolts, put a couple back in before you remove the axles or you will take the risk of the trans falling out on you.

DoubtedNeon · Post by **DoubtedNeon** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:14 am

not to thread jack, but is this the problems mtx swappers will face when they do a swap?

(sorry for that, ill get outa here)

(still think ur neon is sweet dodgeneonzl)

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:10 am

Many of the same issues will come up, but while the ATX has more weight and trans lines to deal with, the MTX has the clutch to contend with.

Still a sizable job either way, just different obstacles

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:35 pm

Alright guys, latest update! I got the motor out!!! wooo hooo!! about time!!!

Ok, so apparently there was one more bolt which i didn't take off... so once that was off yeah the engine and transmission pretty much just separated. I had the jack under the transmission to keep it steady. Also, you do need to disconnect the axle that goes between the trans and the hub/spindle for the trans to have space to move over. I did this by removing the upper bolt of the strut and knuckle bolt.

Anyway, good news is it's out. By the way doubted neon, i don't think taking the trans out would be that much of a trouble compared to the motor. I took a quick look at my trans today after getting the motor off... It's pretty easy as long as you get your mount and lines and stuff off. Disconnecting it from the motor isn't too hard. You just need to remove all the necessary bolt. Also, if you're removing it from the bottom I will suggest renting an engine hoist if possible and slowly lower it to the ground instead of using a jack because it might not balance properly on a jack unless you use some kind of strap or chain to chain it properly.

I will post pictures later tonight of the motor!!

By the way, thanks to everyone who helped my through this. Also, thanks danteneon, you always replied to my questions and i definitly appreciated that. Now, what i needed to do is start researching how to get the belts and accessories off the old motor and onto the new one. I will continue to update this thread with pictures, maybe this can become a helpful post for someone else that wanted to do a motor replacement. Cheers!

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:58 pm

Alright so here's the pictures... enjoy

Post by **jonnymopar** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:28 pm

Not to criticize, but I would be VERY cautious driving the car immediately afterwards. That driver's side axle does not look good. It looks like the inner joint is ready to separate. The boot has already come off. When you detach the knuckle from the strut like you did, you need to take the axle nut off the end so the end of the axle can slide in and out through the middle of the hub. Because that nut is still torqued on there, pulling the knuckle outward has yanked that inner CV joint pretty good. It *might* be ok, but be careful putting it back together and really pay close attention when you're road testing it afterwards.

Other than that, it looks like you did a pretty good job balancing everything. Those automatics are pretty heavy and it seems to be balanced nicely.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:30 pm

Hey johnnymopar, thanks for letting me know though... yeah, well, i'm still in the learning stage so i don't know much about the axles and stuff. So quick question though... when i pulled on the knuckle, the inner joint did come out... along with the boot... (i'm assuming it's the end of the axle with 3 round protrusion?) but i thought it would be ok to put it back into the transmission after everything is finished? or does that mean that if i pulled it and detached it that way it's screwed? Thanks man, i'll try and get a better picture of the detached joint next time.

Also, the reason i pulled it because i thought i would separate it by pulling it so that it will give the trans more space to move toward the driver side because the axle seems to be preventing the trans from moving further toward the driver side.

ok yeah, one more thing, what do you guys think i should change while i'm at it? My car was at 95,000 miles when i flooded it. I know the timing belt and accessory belt should be changed... the accessory belt seems to have a couple of cracks in it too. Anyone know what's a good brand for the belts? i don't want to get a cheap one that's going to break and ruin my engine again. Thanks!

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:25 pm

I've always had good luck with the duralast belts. I tried the goodyear ones, but it lasted a week before it shredded. Put on a duralast one and it lasted a year before I sold the car.

How much damage was done to your hydrolocked engine? If the block is good, you might as well rebuild it to have a back up. You could probably build a stout engine by picking up cheap parts in the for sale section.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:41 am

Hey, cool, thanks man. I'll look for the duralast belts then. Well, I'm not too sure how much damage was done to the block. But i started the damaged motor before and i get a loud knocking noise in the engine, it seems to be coming from the first cylinder, but then again i can't be too sure. So, from what i've been researching, i've probably bent a rod or cracked a piston which is causing some kind of hitting everytime the piston/rod makes a revolution.

By the way donkey puncher, i like your idea, but then again, i live in an apartment and i don't have a truck. I'm doing all of these work in the parking lot of the apartment that i "used" to live at. So now, i will drive back to my old apartment to work on the car. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with the old block once i'm done with it lol.... can't really dump it in the dumpster once i'm done you know...

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:32 am

I would replace the center motor mount located in the passenger side framerail while you can get at it.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:41 am

sounds good, i'll try and see if i can get it... do you know what's a good place to get them? are the ebay's one any good? What about the water pump that i've heard so frequently that we should change while we do the timing belt? My car ran at about 95,000 when it got flooded. Thanks!

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:20 am

Ok, update guys.... i got a lot of stuff switched over from the old motor to the new one. I got the coolant hose and stuff switch over, the alternators, a/c compressor, and the power steering. Also got the bolt that holds the header to the cat off by cutting the bolts off... dang they were tight no kidding... they look as if they're fused together when i cut it in half. anyway, here are some pics... also i'll be putting on the new timing belt tomorrow.

But there's some pictures of the timing belt.
For those people who are planning on changing the timing belt yourself, here's how it looks like when you get this far. Also, i took some detail pictures of how the timing mark should line up before you take the belt off. While working on it i looked up the haynes manual and also the FSM for reference. Now i'm working on getting the adaptors from hardware stores to put in the sensors for the gauges that i have. Oil pressure, oil temperature, and water temperature. So once i have these bolted in, i'll get you guys some more pictures. Also, since i don't have much time in the morning so i did most of these at night at the parking lot at my old apartment. Enjoy! and i hope these pictures can help some of you guys out down the road.

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:16 am

Why are you spending precious time messing with the timing belt on a blown motor? Wouldn't it be better spent replacing the timing belt and water pump on the new motor?

latief · Post by **latief** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:10 am

^^^^^^ yes why are you changing the timing belt on the old motor (unless you swapped the valve cover? )

FYI the passenger side engine-mount (the one in the frame) is a dealer ONLY part........

Man i hate working in a parking lot, i am surprised they allow you to do that!!!

good job so far !!!:thumbup:

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:15 am

true, didn't think about the valve cover swap. I must be a

. Or maybe I shhould sleep more than an hour a night.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:49 am

Looks like you scored an engine with a block heater, if I am right about the thing in the rear above the oil sender. Not sure if you live where you need one tho. I think the cord is a dealer item also, if you don't have one for it.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:22 pm

Hey guys, yeah... i switched the valve cover already, so from now on, motor with a yellow valve cover is the good motor.

So, anyway, tonight i'll work on putting on the timing belt and the sensors for my gauges and also the intake manifold. once these are done... i think i'll be ready to put the motor back in. So wish me luck guys *crosses fingers*.

Also, one lesson that i've learned from this swap.... label everything! including all bolts and wirings! The best way is to take pictures and label the pictures with numbers... then label your bolts or wiring with masking tape and put the number that corrospond to the picture. I know for a fact that i have a couple of brackets and bolts around which i can't remember where they were from... so i'll try to figure it out... if not i'll take a picture and ask if you guys can figure it out.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:35 am

Ok, update guys... so i rented the hoist again today... and shit did it take 4 hours for me and my friend to get the transmission bolted to the hoist correctly and getting the jacks correctly under it for the trans mount to line up correctly in the right place to put the bolt it!!! dang it!!!!! precious time and energy wasted right there. So finally we got it in and bolted up, but during the process we had the transmission fell like a couple of inches down when one of jacks gave out. So, i ended up with a broken wire and a broken plug... see the pictures below... the broken plug is one of those that plugs into the pcm.

So, now i'm so screwed with the broken plug... anyone have any suggestion? I made comparison to what it should look like. The one with the green top is the good one and the one with the gold stuff sticking out is the one with the broken plug. Basically it's that green plastic stuff that hold those little protrusion wire in place that broke off. Does anyone know how i can fix that? Do i just get a replacement from the dealer? or is there hope for it still... let me know!!!! thanks!!! I think i would be able to fix the broken double wire, but it's the plug that i'm worried about.

Broken Plug

Wire break

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:38 am

Man, that sucks! There is hope though.

What color was the plug that broke? What I mean is this...the connector that is still good is green, so the broken connector was what color? If for some reason you cant tell, look at the PCM and where it plugs in will have the color of the plug on it as well.

And I'm not sure what that other connector goes to. What is it?

With that info I can get the part #s and pricing for ya. Chances are your local dealer will have to order the connectors, but I can tell you how long it should take to get them.