Removing engine help!

kstevens91 · Post by **kstevens91** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:05 pm

hey, so you guys probably know i got water sucked in my CAI last month or so... so i got a new used engine... and i'm trying to swap it out. (no money to get an srt yet )

you know thats really funny (well not like haha funny) cuz that was the same exact scenario i had a couple months back. drove thru with my aem intake with my ridiculously low car lol and sucked water right into the engine and broke 2 rods...but yeah i didn't have enough money at the time unfortunately to make the swap like i REALLY wanted to so i just got a new used one like you did. you should see me driving in the rain or not driving in the rain now hahaha

good luck!

c987long · Post by **c987long** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:20 pm

where in all of those picts is the sender so i can hook up an oil pressure gauge, i have looked on the back of my 01 r/t and still cant find it

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:28 pm

hey, thanks man, yeah it's the grey connector... should be the third plugin from the top on the pcm. But my question is even if i get the part... would it be easy to swap a new one in? i probably have to reinsert all the wiring one by one don't I? THanks man...

so, Kstevens91, you did a new used engine swap too? did you run into any problems while putting it back in that i needed to take note of? like anything that needs to be tighten more or etc? I just wanted the engine to go smoothly from now on... it's been taking forever to get things done so far because of roadblock all the time. Thanks!

Oh, for the oil pressure... here's a picture for ya... one with my own oil pressure sender added in...

c987long · Post by **c987long** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:08 pm

thanks, it helps a lot soo do i just tap into the wire or do i need to purchase the sender...

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:12 pm

OK, might it be a white connector? I have a C3 connector that is located right next to the green one.

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C3 - WHITE 38 WAY

CAV CIRCUIT FUNCTION
1
-
-

2
-
-

3
K51 20DB/YL (2.0L)
AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY CONTROL

4
-
-

5
V35 20LG/RD (2.0L)
S/C VENT CONTROL

6
C27 20DB/PK (2.0L)
RAD FAN RELAY CONTROL

7
V32 20YL/RD (2.0L)
S/C SUPPLY

8
K106 20WT/DG (2.0L)
NVLD SOLENOID CONTROL

9
-
-

10
-
-

11
C28 20DB/OR (2.0L)
A/C CLUTCH RELAY CONTROL

12
V36 20TN/RD (2.0L)
S/C VACUUM CONTROL

13
-
-

14
-
-

15
-
-

16
-
-

17
K167 20BR/YL (2.0L)
SENSOR GROUND 2

18
-
-

19
A142 18DG/OR
AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT

20
K52 20PK/BK
EVAP/PURGE CONTROL

21
T141 20YL/RD
CLUTCH INTERLOCK SWITCH SIGNAL

22
-
-

23
K29 20WT/PK
BRAKE SWITCH SIGNAL

24
C20 20BR/OR (2.0L)
A/C SWITCH SENSE

25
-
-

26
T44 20YL/LB (2.0L EATX)
AUTOSTICK DOWNSHIFT SWITCH SIGNAL

26
K119 20LG/BK (2.0L MTX/2.4L TURBO)
CLUTCH UP SWITCH SIGNAL

27
T5 20LG/LB (2.0L)
AUTOSTICK UPSHIFT SWITCH SIGNAL

28
A142 18DG/OR
AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN RELAY OUTPUT

29
K108 20WT/TN
EVAP/PURGE RETURN

30
K10 20DB/OR
PSP SWITCH SIGNAL

31
-
-

32
K118 20PK/YL
BATTERY TEMP SIGNAL

33
-
-

34
V37 20RD/LG (2.0L)
S/C SWITCH SIGNAL

35
K107 20OR (2.0L)
NVLD SWITCH SIGNAL

36
-
-

37
K31 20BR (2.0L)
FUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL

38
K90 20TN
STARTER RELAY CONTROL

The part # is 5083224AB...MSRP $79.25

You will need to assemble the connector and splice in each wire yourself using the above chart. It will take some time and patience.

What was the other connector to?

c987long · Post by **c987long** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:42 pm

thats a lot for a oil pres. gauge...

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:41 pm

lol, c987long, what danteneon have on is not for the oil pressure, it's for the connector that i broke during the swap... it's completely different. For you c987long, when you buy an oil gauge it usually comes with the oil pressure gauge... i guess you could technically tap into the wire, but then i've never seen or heard it been done before, might not even work to be honest. So to do that you need to use a T adaptor. one side into the block, one side to the oem sensor and another to your gauge sensor. Hope this helps.

Ok, back to ya danteneon. The one that i needed was the grey one (i'm almost certain it's grey instead of white, unless it got dirty enough to become grey

). It was the 3rd plug from the pcm top down. I will double check on it tonight. Also, danteneon i think you might have overestimated me a little bit... so you're saying i need to get a connector and get all those wires hooked up???? that's gonna be a hell of a job... So, lets say i already got the new connector... how would i go about swaping into the new one? do i just break the old one and take the wires out one by one and plug it into the new one at the same exact place? Thanks man, i appreciate it!!! THe other connector is all good. i can take it out and solder it back together using an extension wire. Only the pcm one that is gonna be a pita.

Edited*: nevermind, i didn't finish your whole post my bad.

. Also, dang!! 70+ bucks for a connector??? shit...

c987long · Post by **c987long** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:37 pm

dodgeneonzl wrote:lol, c987long, what danteneon have on is not for the oil pressure, it's for the connector that i broke during the swap... it's completely different. For you c987long, when you buy an oil gauge it usually comes with the oil pressure gauge... i guess you could technically tap into the wire, but then i've never seen or heard it been done before, might not even work to be honest. So to do that you need to use a T adaptor. one side into the block, one side to the oem sensor and another to your gauge sensor. Hope this helps.

i remember reading the how to on the neons and on here, thanks for reminding me

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:09 pm

danteneon, i found the page that you were referring to in the FSM. Wow, thanks for taking the time to write all of that down on the forum... thanks! but i realize something, if you look closely at the connector that i broke... it seems like i have a wire on connector #9,11,12,14,18,20,22,25,26,27,29,30,36,37, and 38... and it seems like C3 doesn't have this sequence...

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:36 pm

c987long, tapping into the wire will not work. The oem sender is only an on-off switch. it is "on" without pressure and "off" with pressure. Your elecrical type O.P. gauge would read zero with the engine running, (provided everything is good). And it would be pegged when the engine is off. Thus the reson why you need a tee. If you have an '02-down then the factory sender can be eliminated, but you will not have a working light in your cluster.
Hmmm, sounds like a few ppl I know....

c987long · Post by **c987long** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:00 am

so i plan to use the write up (http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=18545) will that work for my 01 r/t?

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:06 am

Yes

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:53 am

alright guys, update time... so first thing first... lesson learned... put the motor in before the transmission!!! dang... yesterday it took me and my friend 4 hours to get the transmission in place to put a bolt through the trans mount.

Today I realize that the motor can't get in without removing the trans motor mount bolt... so... we have to remove the trans and drop it down a couple of inches or so again so we can move it over a bit and put in the motor. Once that was done we went through the pain of trying to get the trans back in place... took a long time again but probably only 2 hours this time compared to 4 hours yesterday.

Anyway, work from 12am to about 4am at night. Finally got everything bolted on... well, not all the bolts between the motor and the trans... only two bolts hold the motor and the trans right now... but engine motor mount bolt in, both of them, and trans bolt in.

So, all in all, pretty much almost done!!! just the little stuff now. And I found out that the broken connector was C1, in the FSM it says it is the black connector. So, i'm still trying to figure out how i am going to go about making the connector work... because i really don't feel like spending 70+ bucks and then take a long ass time to splice all the wires... and just in case if i splice the wrong one... i'm screwed... maybe. So, i'll keep ya updated... I should get everyth

ing done in the next couple of days... probably in a week or two. Hopefully it would start up this time. Anyway, does one have any ideas that i could use to fix the connector instead of buying a new one? Thanks!!!

Here's some pictures after the engine and trans have been put in and set in place.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:17 am

You could cut one off of a junkyard car and splice that. Still a bit of a PITA to wire, but it'll save ya 68.99 out of that 70 bucks!

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:45 am

It would actually be easier to cut a connector off a junkyard engine. That way you don't have to assemble the connector, just solder the proper wires. And like Random said, it will save you a bunch of money

I can give you the pin-out chart for the black connector for you if you wish.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:12 pm

that was what i was thinking... to get one off the junkyard... but do you think they would just let me cut a connector off?? i mean i would suppose that they would like to sell the whole wiring harness if they were going to make some money off that... besides...

i can't think of much junkyard around here that's got a neon... probably only like 1 or 2 in town otherwise i would have to go to kansas city, but then i still won't know if they have it or not. Keep a lookout for me would ya?

if you guys can find one let me know i'll pay you guys and maybe you can ship it to me?

Anyway, i'll keep a lookout... meanwhile, i'm gonna take a break and go out tonight, been a tough week working at night and school and work in the day time... Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I'll keep you guys updated!

By the way, thanks danteneon, i've got the chart

c987long · Post by **c987long** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:44 pm

have you heard anything about tapping off of the idiot light under the dash, I thought that i heard rumors about it, and if i was going to order the oil sending unit, would i just find one for my neon, or is there something special i have 2 ask for?

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:56 pm

Good deal on the chart

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:45 pm

Update... good news!! i found the (apparently it was black, i don't know how i thought it was grey) black part of the connector that broke off... so i align the pins and slot the part back in and it works!!! so... no more splicing!! phew...

c987long, you need to find a sender that is specific to your gauge... If i'm not wrong some different gauges have different oil pressure sensor. Just like if you buy a window game, you need windows to run it, and windows game won't work on a mac. Usually the gauge comes with the sender, but you might want to double check with it. Also, make sure you're getting the electrical sender and gauge, there's a mechanical one but then you have to route the tube all the way to your dash and then you risk leakage of oil in your car.

Danteneon, i definitly appreciate you following up with the problems that i have with the connector! I owe you one

*edit update*: Danteneon, i went back and saw that it was you who suggested taking the engine and trans out together... now that i think of the entire process, i do admit, you were right... it will be easier taking both of them out at once. Trying to get the engine in and then aligning the trans in was a pita to get done, it will definitly be easier to do it together when it's out together. Also, dropping it down and roll it out from under the car is the best way to go if you're taking the engine and trans out together.

I found out that bottle jacks are way better than standard jacks... that is if you can get it to fit under your car without lifting it a little

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:42 am

Ok, so i was reading up on the FSM as far as the air conditioning and air compressor goes... they said that we're not suppose to expose the air compressor to atmosphere air???

I discharge my a/c the wrong way... which is to disconnect the a/c lines and get this refrigerant thing that just spray into the air... and i thought i would just leave it as that and just plug the lines with rolled up masking tape... but then air from the atmosphere are sure to get in, and i didn't realize it until now... Do you guys think it's a problem now? they said i have to either replace the oil or the a/c compressor!?!?

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:57 am

Glad to see you have come along and the problems you had are getting worked out

I've been where you are and I made my recommendations based on experience. But you know, you have to learn by doing. There is no greater teacher...or harder taskmaster

As far as your A/C goes...since you opened the lines and vented the refrigerant to the air, you have compromised the system. The reason for not allowing air to enter the system is because air contains moisture, and moisture doesn't play well with the system.

The only thing you can do is put the lines back together (I would get a new seal for that line) and take the car once you are done to a shop to have the system purged and recharged. Hopefully no damage was done while left open.

One very important note...once you do start the car for the first time, be sure the A/C is off, and do not set the HVAC controls to defrost or bi-level defrost! All of those settings will run the compressor, and without the refrigerant and oil in it the compressor will lock up.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:42 am

Danteneon wrote:
One very important note...once you do start the car for the first time, be sure the A/C is off, and do not set the HVAC controls to defrost or bi-level defrost! All of those settings will run the compressor, and without the refrigerant and oil in it the compressor will lock up.

Not true. Only if the low pressure switch has malfuctioned (shorted). Without pressure in the system it will not cycle the compressor. But I'm sure you knew that, just had a brain cramp!

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:10 am

Ummm...yeah...I, uh....

Ah, much better. Thanks.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:43 am

wow, dang... that sounds pretty bad...

So, is it possible to purge and recharge the a/c ourself? if not how much does it run to get it purge and recharged? I'm trying to keep the cost down low because i needed to buy quite a couple of things and get a couple of things welded and it all adds up....

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:36 am

Last time I had to get mine done it was 200 but that was to retrofit to the new stuff. I would say it should cost you 80 bucks or so.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:30 pm

dodgeneonzl wrote:*edit update*: Danteneon, i went back and saw that it was you who suggested taking the engine and trans out together... now that i think of the entire process, i do admit, you were right... it will be easier taking both of them out at once. Trying to get the engine in and then aligning the trans in was a pita to get done, it will definitly be easier to do it together when it's out together.

jonnymopar wrote:I'm not exactly how far along you are, but when I'm switching engines on FWD cars, I always try to pull out the engine and transmission together.

...

If you haven't gone too far, I'd recommend that you put those few bolts back in and pull everything out at once. My 2 cents.

Who is this Danteneon guy anyway? haha

Hey, I'm thankful for some of the things I learned the hard way. Learn it the hard way and you never forget it. Seriously, you just did all this work yourself. I bet you'll feel a hell of a lot more prepared if you ever need to (want to) do an engine swap on a front wheel drive car in the future.

As far as the air conditioner issue, where do you live? Are you in a region that you could live with no A/C for a while? You said you were trying to keep cost down, so maybe you can do the A/C later on if your budget won't allow it. It probably wouldn't cause any issues.

$80 sounds about right to have the system purged and recharged, providing that the whole system is still in good working order. With a newer car like this, you shouldn't have any issues with seals or anything while re-assembling it all.

dodgeneonzl · Post by **dodgeneonzl** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:56 am

hey johnny mopar, yeah, 80 bucks isn't too bad... it'll be something if it was over 100... I live in lawrence, ks... so technically it's getting a little cold here now so i probably don't need the A/C until next summer.

Update for you guys, bad news this time... well, i work on the car in the parking lot... at the very inner end of the apartment complex, so i figure it would be ok to leave my tools out under the car figuring no one would want to steal jacks and light lamp post and extension cord... Dang was i wrong... friggin thief stole my 2 jacks (one of them low profile which is 49.99) one lighting stand with two lamps on it, and two smaller lamps, and a 100ft extension cord!! apparently they didn't steal my bottle jack that was holding the trans up (althought even if they take it there are still bolts so it won't fall), anyway, dang!! i'm so pissed!! why would people steal tools when they see people working on their car!!!

Well, anyway, i consider myself lucky because i have a carbon fiber hood under the car along with a tire under the car too... so now i put everything in another car now that apparently even cheap stuff can get stolen too!

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:24 am

Yeah, that sucks, but I always lock everything inside the car. The hood, IIRC will fit in the trunk with the seats down, but I hope you already have it tucked away somewhere. Unless the car is resting on it, it gets put away! I haven't had to many issues where I live, but no need to leave an open invitation. Ppl will take stuff just to be dicks.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:44 am

jonnymopar wrote:If you haven't gone too far, I'd recommend that you put those few bolts back in and pull everything out at once. My 2 cents.

Yep, Jon was the first (literally...post # 2) to suggest the one piece removal. I just seconded the motion a few posts later...

danteneon wrote:I would strongly advise taking the earlier suggestions and remove the engine and trans as one unit. You will thank us later.

Sorry I didn't set the record straight before Jon

I'm sorry to hear about your tools. From personal experience (see how that keeps coming up?) you should always lock your tools in the car. And hope they don't bring a flatbed and steal the whole car. That happened to me.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:45 pm

Danteneon wrote:And hope they don't bring a flatbed and steal the whole car. That happened to me.

Holy crap! What car was this??