Any thoughts??

n20sxt · Post by **n20sxt** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:38 pm

I was researching all day at work today, and i think Im gonna use Apexi SAFC II for my boost project. Has anyone on here have any experience with this program? any feedback would be great, thanks.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:10 pm

Nope. Won't work with a 1 BAR MAP sensor as is used in an N/A neon. You might be able to tune a little bit out of boost, but it would have no say in what happens above 0, which is where you need to tune the most anyway.

n20sxt · Post by **n20sxt** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:50 pm

i was reading about some kid swaping the SRT-4 MAP sensor in so when it hits boost it uses the SRT-4 map sensor?? idk if this is right but thats what he did. He also somehow kept his factory one but when it hit boost it clamped the stock MAP sensor? any input on this, does this sound right?

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:52 pm

Not at all. You would have to figure out a way to actually retune the stock tables and basically scale them for the new voltage range of the SRT MAP sensor. While that's possible, it's hardly worth doing, when the equipment required to do that would cost far more than a full featured standalone would.

vtec_yo · Post by **vtec_yo** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:07 pm

not necessarly true. A missing link tricks the stock map sensor and cuts out positive manifold pressure before it reaches the map sensor.

http://www.racingworks.com/missinglink.htm

"Special Note: Dodge Neon Missing Link is Designed for Dohc 420A Engine, but will work on the Sohc Engine if you modify the Map Sensor Mounting Face."(found at the bottom of the url above)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2433252

and theres a neon using the missing link and tuning with e-manage blue, which is better then the do it your self mega squirt IMO

so as you can see there are other options

n20sxt · Post by **n20sxt** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:13 pm

Yeah i was wonderin how that kid used greddy emanage. Thanks Vtec, i knew there had to be another way besides useing MS

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:13 pm

vtec_yo wrote:not necessarly true. A missing link tricks the stock map sensor and cuts out positive manifold pressure before it reaches the map sensor.

http://www.racingworks.com/missinglink.htm

"Special Note: Dodge Neon Missing Link is Designed for Dohc 420A Engine, but will work on the Sohc Engine if you modify the Map Sensor Mounting Face."(found at the bottom of the url above)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2433252

and theres a neon using the missing link and tuning with e-manage blue, which is better then the do it your self mega squirt IMO

so as you can see there are other options

I can forsee a laundry list of problems using the greddy for anything more powerful. That's basically a glorified portfueler as it useful for a neon. Problem is that your tune changes dramatically because since the injector control is taken away from the stock ECU, but spark control is not, the stock ECU will be mad, and actually have a decision about spark retard, etc. to attempt to keep the engine from damaging itself, whereas a real standalone such as the MS, the AEM, ProEFI, Autronics, or the others that will work with a crank trigger wheel take complete control, so even when the stock ECU flips out, it's not changing anything.

Whoever told you the Greddy is better than the MS is filling you full of hot air. Use both and tell me what works better, because you have obviously never touched a real standalone. Can the greddy give me launch limiting? Table switching? Staged injection? How about peak and hold injection? Coil-on-plug? According to the kid that wrote that whole article about it couldn't even get spark control on the wasted spark ignition coil work.

The MAP clamp is a common device used for people tuning with a RRFPR. I've used mechanical and voltage limiting devices. Neither addresses the fact that an AFC computer modifies the MAP signal going to the stock ECU, and if the stock ECU only has values in it's table up to 1 BAR, then no matter how you tune it mechanically, you are still not going to magically create a 170kpa tune. And if you just toss bigger injectors in, and start cranking down fuel values until you can get it to run out of boost, you're still stuck with the same fuel at 100kpa as 200kpa, so you can either drive it at 10% throttle position or 100% throttle position, and everything else in between will cause problems.

I'm not saying MS is the only option. I'm saying it's the best option. The AEM is also a great standalone, but it's many times the price for just a different feature set. Not even a better one. And almost all the other standalones require a standardized crank wheel to be bolted on to the crank pulley, making installation that much more complicated.