2002 neon...2.4l swap??

new2ndgen · Post by **new2ndgen** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:57 am

hey guys,

Ill be honest i just got into this whole neon thing..my friend just picked up a 1gen with a 2.4l turbo in it and it goes lol..so i am looking into buyin a 2nd gen and then buy the 2.4l stratus motor and get some forged internals bearings and so worth..also just to let you know i am looking to basiically run a stage 3 set-up not goign to go with the mopar one because it is costly and i dont need a warrenty lol so i dont care really..just basically wondering about everything..what i would need for the swap..also what i would need to get for internals ppl have told me that the srt-4 internals fit so would i just get a/m internals for an srt then put them in?..also wondering if the tranny would hold the power or not?..basically all the info you can give me..

please dont flame me i looked around the site and found a couple things on it but they were kidnda all over the place so i just wanted to tell you what i want and see what you guys think

Thanks in advance
Jordan

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:56 am

An SRT- 4 engine would be cheaper to start with if you're going FI.
This should be in the swap section, where I think you'll find all your answers by reading, and searching. The Tuning/megasquirt section is a good place to look also. A month of reading will save you months of

Pablodragon · Post by **Pablodragon** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:14 am

he mentioned that he hasn't yet bought the 2nd gen car or the motor...
why not just buy an SRT-4 and build the engine up from there?

wouldn't it be cheaper and easier? it's the same 2.4l and it's already in the car (?)

ZeroChad · Post by **ZeroChad** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:24 am

I've always thought the stratus swap would be pretty sweet. Anyway, welcome to the site, and good luck with your project.

BTW people don't like duplicate posts in multiple section.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:31 am

You can put SRT-4 internals in any Stratus/Sebring/Caravan/PT Cruiser 2.4L. I built one just like that for my Daytona. My short block has a Stratus block, Stratus crank, and everything else SRT. No problems at all. However, I'm running a stock Stratus top end on it now, which isn't going to flow as well as the SRT-4/PT does unless I port it later.

I know it's already been said, but if you don't want to spend the money on a complete SRT-4 to start with, my advice would be to find an SRT-4 or PT Cruiser Turbo engine to build up and transplant. Even if you plan on rebuilding the whole thing with forged pistons and all the goodies, you'd still be starting with a better block and a better head. But like I said, using the Stratus engine is absolutely possible and it works well. I have proof of that in my driveway. It's just not quite as good of a starting point as an SRT-4/PT turbo engine.

excon · Post by **excon** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:53 am

If you can find an SRT-4, get it. You'll be starting with a better suspension, better brakes, a better interior (if it hasn't been destroyed), and you won't have to swap the engine.

The money you would spend on buying the new engine, transmission, axles, etc. and the time you would spend ripping out the 2.0 and putting in the 2.4 would pay for itself if you just started out with the srt-4.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:05 am

I undrestand your desire to get an SE/SXT at a lower intial cost and then build from there, but weather or not you ever get to your goal is unknown - life happens. In the long run you will spend far more to get what you want. It would be better to make payment on it and have it. Oweing $ on it might make you respect it just a tad bit more, and make you a better driver/fellow person on the road. I am in no way knocking you, but I know the temptation too well if you have less to lose.

Neon4Life · Post by **Neon4Life** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:28 am

well if ur willing to get a 2.4 stratus motor why not just put the money into doing a srt-4 complete engine swap.

Swordfish2Cowboy · Post by **Swordfish2Cowboy** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:03 pm

Yeah, I'd advise against buying a 2.4 NA motor and building it up. If you already had one lying around collecting dust, then go ahead and build it up, but an SRT4 motor would be much easier in the long run.

new2ndgen · Post by **new2ndgen** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:03 pm

hey guys im just wondering how it will be cheaper because i can pick a stratus motor up for like 300-600 max and around here a srt motor is like 1500-3000..pistons and rods for the stratus are 1000 said and done then just bearings and stuff like that

Thanks in advance
Jordan

relenger · Post by **relenger** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:54 pm

this should help>>> it has alot of info on block's. years and swap parts to do it cheap.
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=195591

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:51 am

merged tpics. please don't multi post like this.

new2ndgen · Post by **new2ndgen** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:54 am

if i was to buy an srt around here it would be like 12-20 thousand..i think i could go in with this project and be under 5k with the price on the car inc..2k for the car and a whole rebulid kit is 1000..what else do i need?...this is why i dont understand how srt swap/car would be cheaper

Neon4Life · Post by **Neon4Life** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:16 am

new2ndgen wrote:if i was to buy an srt around here it would be like 12-20 thousand..i think i could go in with this project and be under 5k with the price on the car inc..2k for the car and a whole rebulid kit is 1000..what else do i need?...this is why i dont understand how srt swap/car would be cheaper

ok see to us guys that already have a neon its cheaper cause all we have to do is put down a little less than 5k for a good complete swap.but since u still got to get the car and the engine then yeah its going to end up costing u more and for u it would just be easier to get a srt-4 rite of the back or try to find a really good one thats been fixed up with a salvaged title i once saw one for 6k with like 30 thousand miles.

new2ndgen · Post by **new2ndgen** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:37 pm

ok well i got a car lined up right now for 1700 and a motor for like 600 at most pretty sure it will be less then that..so thats 2300 right there..total rebulid is 1100..there is 3400.. i really just dont understand how you can say it is cheaper to buy a 12-20 thousand SRT-4...

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:36 pm

you need more than a motor to do a swap. also what year car and what year motor?

Post by **jonnymopar** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:26 pm

As occasional demons said, it's all about what goals you have for the car. Going with the SRT-4 isn't cheaper, but it will allow you to achieve much higher performance goals with less work. If you're wanting to swap a Neon over to turbo power and make maybe 300-350hp with pretty good handling, then do that. If you're looking to run 400+hp or something crazy, the SRT-4 is a much better starting point.

You've outlined that you're pretty much set up to spend $3400. Not bad. Now double that. That's the minimum of what you'll actually spend. If you don't believe me, give it an honest try and keep very close track of what you spend. Please don't think I'm being a prick. I've been at this point and many others have been as well. It happens every time.

For $1700, you're not going to get a flawless Neon. You're going to get one with some miles on it that's probably going to need suspension work, and you might want to think about brake upgrades. All that power on worn suspension and crappy brakes won't be too fun to drive. Remember, that stock Neon suspension, even in perfect working order, will only get you stock-like handling.

Swapping the Stratus engine is going to involve using the SRT-4 engine mounts. Stratus mounts are in completely different places. You can score these off the SRT-4 engine, or just start with the SRT-4 engine in the first place. Either of those will drive your cost up.

What do you have for wheels? If you don't want to be spinning tire all day, you're gonna have to get rid of the little 14" or 15" tires that will likely be on that $1700 Neon.

Is this Neon you found an automatic or a 5-speed? If you use the 5-speed that's already in it, I would strongly advise against feeding it with any more than 300hp at the absolute max to keep it reliable. Some people have used it in higher-horsepower applications... personally, I wouldn't. If you do keep the stock transmission, you're going to need a better clutch for any amount of turbo power. If you're going with big power, then upgrade to the SRT-4 transmission/clutch, which of course will cost you more money.

If the car is automatic, then you're screwed. You'll burn up that automatic real quick. You have two options: have a high-performance overhaul done to it to beef it up, or swap the car over to 5-speed. Both cost money.

You said you want to go with forged internals and probably run Stage 3 horsepower ranges. For instrumentation, you will need, at the VERY LEAST, a good boost gauge and an air/fuel gauge. Again, that's bare minimum. If you're wise, you'll run a boost gauge, wideband air/fuel, fuel pressure, and EGT (a.k.a. pyrometer). With those 4 gauges, you'll be able to tune the car accurately, and more importantly, safely. Those gauges tend to get pricey. Furthermore, you'll need a bigger fuel pump for turbo use. You'll need a fuel pressure regulator (the type depends on what electronics you use). You'll need bigger injectors because those little stock 196cc Stratus injectors will leave you with burned pistons. You'll need an intercooler. You'll need to fabricate your own intercooler piping to work with the Stratus intake if you decide to use it. Again, this is all stuff you NEED. See how it adds up?

Ok, fast foward. So say you've gotten lucky with a few things, maybe got some parts on trades, maybe sold some of your old stock parts to recoup some cash, and you've only doubled your $3400 to that minimum $6800 mark. After all that, you still payed at least $5000 less than an SRT-4. There's no denying that. You did just spend alot of time building a car that might be a little faster than a stock SRT-4. The satisfaction of building it will be there. It will feel great! Plus, as I said, it's cheaper than buying an SRT-4. But now, potential for upgrades on your car versus the upgrades you can do to a stock SRT-4 is not in your favor. The SRT-4 has much more to go than your build.

Again, to boil it all down, if you want to go about 300hp, then build the Stratus engine and heave it in there! It will be a quick little sleeper of a car for sure. Plus you did it all yourself, which feels awesome once you're driving it. If you want the big power and the good handling, then the SRT-4 is the right choice.

Take some time to really evaluate exactly what you want to accomplish with this car, then price things out BEFORE you start buying parts. You don't want to discover that the project is too expensive after you've already blown cash on half of the parts. Plan ahead. Best of luck to you, whichever route you take. You've found a great resource for info in either case.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:39 pm

Holy Shit Jon

I'm on AIM if you have a few min to tell me about whatever beer story you had

new2ndgen · Post by **new2ndgen** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:07 pm

it would be going into a 2002...and like a 90's motor im pretty sure..would that be good enough ?

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:13 pm

not to sound like an ass, but you really need to search and read. it will help you more than you can imagine.

excon · Post by **excon** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:36 am

I can speak from experience and tell you that things do happen. Whenever you are using used parts it's usually 2x what you planned on spending. In my case 3x

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:43 pm

jonnymopar wrote:Everything he said in post 17 above.

Plus an SRT-4 PCM or MS to run it. The SOHC pcm won't support a DOHC engine, unless you can get the cam signal figured out, then you would still have all the associated tuning issues with a SOHC 2.0 turbo build.

new2ndgen · Post by **new2ndgen** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:26 pm

hey just to let everyone know that i am now going with the 2.0..now what exact motor should i use i want to build the bottom end and boost it i would like to see around 300+WHP...give me your thoughts

Thanks in advance
Jordan

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:43 pm

occasional demons wrote:
jonnymopar wrote:Everything he said in post 17 above.
Plus an SRT-4 PCM or MS to run it. The SOHC pcm won't support a DOHC engine, unless you can get the cam signal figured out, then you would still have all the associated tuning issues with a SOHC 2.0 turbo build.

No. The SOHC PCM will support the DOHC engine, ask 1gn guys, they do it all the time. Infact, I'm running a DOHC computer on my SOHC. You just have to use a PT cruiser cam sensor, so instead of going to the only cam, it goes to the exhaust cam. I forget who, but someone on here before had done it, was running nitrous, and had ridiculous times.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:01 pm

invujerry wrote:
occasional demons wrote:
jonnymopar wrote:Everything he said in post 17 above.
Plus an SRT-4 PCM or MS to run it. The SOHC pcm won't support a DOHC engine, unless you can get the cam signal figured out, then you would still have all the associated tuning issues with a SOHC 2.0 turbo build.
No. The SOHC PCM will support the DOHC engine, ask 1gn guys, they do it all the time. Infact, I'm running a DOHC computer on my SOHC. You just have to use a PT cruiser cam sensor, so instead of going to the only cam, it goes to the exhaust cam. I forget who, but someone on here before had done it, was running nitrous, and had ridiculous times.

At least I was on the right track. Just didn't know how it was done. So I didn't speculate. Figured if I threw it out there, I/we would get a better answer. I knew the DOHC 2.0 to 2.4, the intake cam sensor magnets rotated 90º, but that's DOHC to DOHC.

new2ndgen · Post by **new2ndgen** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:34 am

ok guys i thought about it and i dont think the 2.4 will be worth the trouble..so i am going to go with the 2.0 and build the bottom end and then boost it..i will be buyin the motor within the next couple of weeks im just wondering as to what motor i should buy does anyone got any tips or anything

Thanks in advance
Jordan

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:44 pm

new2ndgen wrote:hey just to let everyone know that i am now going with the 2.0..now what exact motor should i use i want to build the bottom end and boost it i would like to see around 300+WHP...give me your thoughts

Thanks in advance
Jordan

new2ndgen wrote:ok guys i thought about it and i dont think the 2.4 will be worth the trouble..so i am going to go with the 2.0 and build the bottom end and then boost it..i will be buyin the motor within the next couple of weeks im just wondering as to what motor i should buy does anyone got any tips or anything

Thanks in advance
Jordan

Don't worry we'll keep discussing stuff, we're like that.
As far as what engine depends on what year of 2gn you actually end up with. The thread title says 2002, but you don't have it yet that we know. If you get a 2000 through 2002 why not use the engine it comes with, unless it is beyond repair. aside from that any 95-02 block/assembly will work, but the '95 has a different pcv system, so '96 -'02 would prolly be easiest. Just use the IM from the 2gn car. the '95-'99 IM/TB will not work with the heater tubes on the 2gn engine. It hits the heater tubes, may not clear the starter solenoid, and the IAC will only work with the '00 if the connector is compatible. I'm sure there are more small details...
Edit: Almost forgot! If you end up with an '03-'05 then you are limited to those years for the bottom end/block due to the different crank sensor.

Or you could go this route: http://www.indyheads.com/images/price10.pdf

Neon Engine 3.465” 2.2L (134 cid) Part # NEO-C6-2.2LBore 3 .540” Stroke, Pump Gas
Fully Prepped Stock 2.0 Block IN-DAS Head (36mmX 31.5mm) Moroso Baffled Oil Pan Melling Pump Less: Block Core
Callies 3.543” Crankshaft Crane #12 Cams 2.4 Adjusters & Rockers Throttle Body, Injectors
IN-29 Eagle H-Beam Rods (5.472”) Crane Cam Gears ARP Head Studs & Computer Controls
IN-25, Wiseco Pistons 10.50 to 1 IN-5 Fully Ported Intake Rotating Assembly Balanced ................................................ 6,595.00
2.2L Neon Engine Kit Includes: Machining of Supplied Block, Balanced Rotating Assembly, Head Assemblies, Port Work On Heads
All Parts To Build Engine. ....................................................................................................................................... Part # NEO-C6-2.2L-1 ...................... 5,995.00

That will give you a nice engine and help the economy!

datadave49 · Post by **datadave49** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:27 am

new2ndgen wrote:hey just to let everyone know that i am now going with the 2.0..now what exact motor should i use i want to build the bottom end and boost it i would like to see around 300+WHP...give me your thoughts

Thanks in advance
Jordan

Hey Hey
Jordan as they rest of them said go with the SRT motor you will be better off we started with a 2000 neon and played with the 2.0 but when we found out about the SRT we gave up on the 2.0.to get to 300+ whp you will spend a lot mor then if you go SRT just my 2 cents also check out my web pages and any other that you can find to help which way to go
Dave

Graphite SRT · Post by **Graphite SRT** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:40 am

if you decide to go 2.4 i still would do an srt swap as you will be swapping the pcm which is already setup for turbo. If you were to go with the stratus 2.4 it has the older crank trigger, then you would have to use your stock 2.0 ecu. what you you do for fuel in boost? RRFPR is ok but is hard to get perfect. Also you would be using 2.0 timing which would be too much once you get into boost.

PS..I did my swap for around 2000 or less. You just have to wait and find the good deals