2003 SXT Neon Magnum Swap

m2736185 · Post by **m2736185** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:07 pm

Hey guys I just wanted to get a list of all the parts I will need. Unfortunitly the Neon I just bought is an automatic so its going to make the swap 10x harder. I tracked down an R/T engine for $350 with 60k miles on it. Its the only good luck I have had. soo Other than the engine I am going to need

5 Speed Transmission
MTX Axel
R/T Computer
Shifter
Pedals
Clutch Master cyclinder
New clutch
R/T Dash?

anything else? Im guessing the tranny is going to be around $400 the axel $100 Comp $100 so im looking at about $1000 total? It would be 10x easier if i could find a wrecked RT in my area.

excon · Post by **excon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:04 pm

You don't have to use the 5 speed transmission. You could get away with using the automatic, but you wouldn't want to. The axles you have in the sxt will be fine as well. You won't need the r/t dash either... I'm guess you mean to say the r/t instrument cluster. You won't need that either. Your sxt cluster with tach should be the same; that is, it will go up to the same top mph of 120, and it will have the same redline of 6500.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:46 pm

I would say that while you don't need to swap the cluster, the higher MPH speedo would be nice since you won't have the 118mph cutoff any longer. Since you will be able to go past 120, having a cluster that shows that would be nice.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:00 pm

The RT PCM isn't really needed either. It will be far easier to do the window switch/relays etc. than getting a used one-if you can find one. Unless you can find one for free/dirt cheap. A new PCM is prolly around $500 ish. Definitely not worth it. Finding a regular MTX pcm is going to be hard enough. Then you will need the usual SKIM/VIN flash.There are some vendors on ebay that sell used ones, so that's a start. NGC's biggest drawback is trans swaps, IMHO.

excon wrote:You don't have to use the 5 speed transmission. You could get away with using the automatic, but you wouldn't want to. The axles you have in the sxt will be fine as well. You won't need the r/t dash either... I'm guess you mean to say the r/t instrument cluster. You won't need that either. Your sxt cluster with tach should be the same; that is, it will go up to the same top mph of 120, and it will have the same redline of 6500.

Unless the '03-'04 cluster is different than '01-'02, the R/T goes to 140 mph.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:18 pm

occasional demons wrote:Unless the '03-'04 cluster is different than '01-'02, the R/T goes to 140 mph.

It's the same. Like this one...

I love having an ACR

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:19 pm

i can't remember will the R/T computer support an automatic, if he were to hold off on the trans swap.

m2736185 · Post by **m2736185** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:32 pm

Hey thats great news if I can just swap the engine since thats all I can afford right now and its right in my area. You guys sure I wont need a new computer and I can use the magnum with my Auto trans?

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:38 pm

racer12306 wrote:i can't remember will the R/T computer support an automatic, if he were to hold off on the trans swap.

Good point. The R/T computer doesn't have the support for ATX.

Post by **racer12306** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:55 pm

sorry to turn it into bad news.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:59 pm

Well, the swap can still be done, you would have to wire up the MTV with a window switch like OD said. But would you want to go to the trouble of this swap for not enormous power gains and still have an ATX?

m2736185 · Post by **m2736185** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:07 pm

well My current Neon's timing belt went so I would have to replace the head anyways. The cost of a head and gasket etc is almost the same price as an entire magnum engine. Atleast this way I can look to install a MTX later down the road.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:11 pm

It went while driving? How do you know the head needs to be replaced? To be honest, it wouldn't be cheaper to replace an engine since even though the parts may be the same, time and labor would be more in the end.

Even if the head did have to be changed, it is a much easier job than doing the Magnum swap. Not trying to discourage you, I just want to make sure you know your options.

m2736185 · Post by **m2736185** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:06 pm

Yes, it went while driving. I know it wouldnt be cheaper, but I want to do a MTX conversion and Magnum swap in the long run. I guess I can shell out the $300 for the regular head swap and keep my eye out for a wrecked R/T

04R/T · Post by **04R/T** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:23 am

To operate to their factory rating of 150 horsepower, R/T's need premium fuel because of the PCM's more aggressive map. If you run an auto and your original PCM I don't think you'll notice much difference over the original engine.

Don't forget the exhaust system, R/T's have a different cat and larger piping.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:30 am

04R/T wrote:To operate to their factory rating of 150 horsepower, R/T's need premium fuel because of the PCM's more aggressive map. If you run an auto and your original PCM I don't think you'll notice much difference over the original engine.

Don't forget the exhaust system, R/T's have a different cat and larger piping.

For NGC, I don't think the PCM is all that critical for what it costs vs the gain, if it was the only missing link. Not that a non NGC pcm would be a lot cheaper. Like I said previously finding a used one would be a pain. Unfortunately the PCM is in the kill zone for most collisions.
I am running an R/T pcm on my SE, and to be honest as far as the timing map, I really see no gains using 92+ octane over 87. In fact it seems to make better power (torque) with 87. At 6000+ rpm it does seem a bit better, but that is not a practical RPM to make use of the fuel. At normal driving RPM's the 87 seems a lot more responsive. But when I upgrade my exhaust I'll run a few tanks to see if that changes.

The exhaust can be upgraded using aftermarket piping, the only really meaningful difference in the cat is the o2 sensor is mounted in the inlet vs the manifold, but that can be corrected by either welding a bung in the exisisting cat or the R/T/aftermaket header. If your cat is shot, then go ahead and replce it with the R/T unit, but otherwise for the $ it's not worth it.
The biggest gain the ACR's/R/T's have is the 3.94 MTX, this is most likely why my car likes 87 over 92 octane: the PCM just isn't seeing the consistently higer RPM's. Just changing tires by one size seems to make an impact, so the gears definately help. While the engine still reaches the same rpm's it is at a different load/vehicle speed at that rpm.

snkmug · Post by **snkmug** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:49 pm

you need to just throw on a timing belt and see if the head and valves are good. My girls broke while driving and hers was fine, even though its a interference engine...you might have been lucky...Try the belt first....