Email forwarded to me- please read

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:05 am

To All,
This one needs to be forwarded to as many people as possible as a reminder of who is actually taking care of business at home. Considering the recent news and events regarding the Big Three and what's at stake for current and future jobs for millions of people and the risk of losing technological advances, knowledge, and experience of our manufacturing capabilities.
For the record...

Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions after 9/11

'CNN Headline News' did a short news listing including Ford, Chrysler and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York City and Washington, D.C. The findings were as follows:

1. Ford- $10 million to the American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to the NYC Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees;

2. DaimlerChrysler- $10 million to the support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack;

3. GM- $10 million to the American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of vans, SUV's, and trucks;

4. Harley-Davidson- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the NYC Police Dept.;

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept. 11 Foundation, funded initially with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC;

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross;

7. Audi-Nothing;

8. BMW-Nothing;

9. Daewoo- Nothing;

10. Fiat-Nothing;

11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001;

12. Isuzu- Nothing;

13. Mitsubishi-Nothing;

14. Nissan-Nothing;

15. Porsche- Nothing. Press release with condolences via the website;

16. Subaru- Nothing;

17. Suzuki- Nothing;

18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website.

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States.

It's okay for these companies to take money out of this country but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention-

BUY YOUR NEXT VEHICLE FROM GM, FORD OR CHRYSLER.

Swordfish2Cowboy · Post by **Swordfish2Cowboy** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:05 am

Why would they contribute? lol and fuck buying new cars. No one makes good cars any longer, except the really expensive stuff. Hopefully I'll be able to squirrel away a couple Neons and just keep driving them for a long time.

And Chrysler probably got all that money from the money they saved cutting corners on all their cars.

ZeroChad · Post by **ZeroChad** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:00 am

I think the big thing to look at here is the employee contribution. The big 3 and VW setup donation matching, whereas it was beyond other companies. I think it really reveals the mentality and ethics of foriegn automotives.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:03 am

Swordfish2Cowboy wrote:Why would they contribute? lol and fuck buying new cars. No one makes good cars any longer, except the really expensive stuff. Hopefully I'll be able to squirrel away a couple Neons and just keep driving them for a long time.

And Chrysler probably got all that money from the money they saved cutting corners on all their cars.

v95 · Post by **v95** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:38 am

wow dude thats real funny.

LilSparkPlug · Post by **LilSparkPlug** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:59 pm

I will always stay loyal to Chrysler. I was watching part of their debate on CNN today, but only caught bits and pieces. I really hope the government comes through for them, Ford and GM. America needs the big 3.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:21 pm

I bought 2 Dodge vehicles, I think i've contributed enough...

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:31 pm

I honestly do not care about who donates what. Why should a foreign car company donate to a relief fund in the USA? I have the same mentality when I think about the USA donating large sums of money to foreign countries for disaster relief. Why? Let country A worry about Country A's problems and we'll worry about our own.

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:56 pm

^ I'm beginning to like this guy more everyday" Seriously you are exactly right.
Perhaps if we fixed our problems and stopped running around the world with this "America is #1" bullshit the rest of the world wouldn't hate us so much.

LowNSlow · Post by **LowNSlow** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:41 pm

Agreed....with 2 above.

jrumann59 · Post by **jrumann59** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:15 pm

Unfortunately the Big 3 did this to themselves, they were too leveraged in their own financing banks so when the banks toppled so did they. They need to get back to making cars not financing them.

heyitsstock · Post by **heyitsstock** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:28 pm

last four posts own the thread... imo

big 3 mentality in the earlier days; "we want it bigger and better and nothing will stop us, are american buyers are too loyal to our products and will not buy the imports"

yea until the imports benefit them... all most all people are not loyal...

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:03 am

No, the "Big Three" did not do "this" to themselves. Did it ever occur to some of you how unfair our trade laws are to American firms, how they actually favor foreign companies? And how foreign governments manipulate their currencies so that their exports are always able to undercut what is made here in this country? How foreign governments slap tarriffs on American-made goods to make them too expensive for their citizens to buy from us? And how American companies by law often have to have established partners in foreign countries in order for them to do business while that isn't the way it is done here (imagine what success Toyota or Honda would have had in the US had they been forced to partner with Buick in order to set up shop)? No, I guess that you haven't thought about this. [/rant}

jrumann59 · Post by **jrumann59** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:04 am

Lets see Big 3 autoworkers avg about $71.00 per hour and roughly about $2600 per car goes to healthcare benefits, holiday pay, shutdowns and relief that the unions negotiated. Toyota workers average about $48.00 per hour and only about $200 per care goes to healthcare for their workers. How can you say the Big 3 didn't do this to themselves, when gas was high the best MPG vehicle they had got only 30+ and they were still churning out V-8's. They were so busy trying to keep up with Japanese pricing that they cut their margins into the red and banked on making the money back through their financing. So a tariff war is what you propose, who does it hurt more us or them, find me 10 things in your house that is american made then find me 10 things in your house that are asian made I am willing to bet you more incidental things american made and more electronics asian made. Also Toyota and Honda have plants in the US and all that they need imported are parts so again that are now playing on the same field the Big 3 are just hoping their deal with the military industrial complex will be enough to get them bailed out.

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:12 am

jrumann59 wrote:Lets see Big 3 autoworkers avg about $71.00 per hour and roughly about $2600 per car goes to healthcare benefits, holiday pay, shutdowns and relief that the unions negotiated. Toyota workers average about $48.00 per hour and only about $200 per care goes to healthcare for their workers.

$71 an hour? Where did you get this figure? What I have been hearing in Kokomo is that it is more like $28 an hour and the new second tier workers are averaging $14. The import transplants don't have the "legacy costs" that the Big Three have simply because they haven't been in this country long enough to have a retired workforce. And I don't want to hear anything about these so-called "legacy costs" since my mother is a direct beneficiary of what my late father earned for her and I can't afford to take care of her myself, even if I am working two jobs seven days a week.

jrumann59 wrote:How can you say the Big 3 didn't do this to themselves, when gas was high the best MPG vehicle they had got only 30+ and they were still churning out V-8's.

Hmmm, my '95 Neon averaged low-to-mid 40's on a regular basis. On the other hand, Detroit built trucks and SUV's because this is what American buyers wanted- you have to built what your customers want, right?

jrumann59 wrote:So a tariff war is what you propose, who does it hurt more us or them, find me 10 things in your house that is american made then find me 10 things in your house that are asian made I am willing to bet you more incidental things american made and more electronics asian made.

Aside from electronics and three pieces of Canadian-made furniture that I brought back with me from a trip to Canada, everything in my house is American-made. My television was made by RCA right here in Indiana, thank you very much. My landline was made by Western Electric here in Indianapolis back in the 80's. My clothes are made in this country- I read labels when shopping. I had my bathroom gutted and remodeled two years ago and the contractor thought that I was being extremely difficult in my demanding that everything had to be made in this country. Well, with the exception of the GFI plug-in and the CFI bulbs (Chinese-made as there are none made in this country), everything from the tile to the faucets to the toilet was made in the US. As to a "tariff war" as you call it, fair is fair- if other countries protect their industries, we should follow suit. There really isn't any "Fair Trade" in this country since everything is so tilted in the favor of foreign businesses.

jrumann59 wrote:Also Toyota and Honda have plants in the US and all that they need imported are parts so again that are now playing on the same field.

You're forgetting the many American parts manufacturers that supply not just Detroit but also the foreign transplants- these companies and their employees will be deeply affected by Detroit going under.

jrumann59 wrote:the Big 3 are just hoping their deal with the military industrial complex will be enough to get them bailed out.

You'd better hope that they survive in case one of our enemies attacks our country. Without factories like these, we will be unable to make war materials for defense (the Big Three helped the US win WWII in case anyone forgot).

latief · Post by **latief** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:59 am

I think that the days of "live as you want without consequences " are over. new rules are here now. technology, education, and transportation advances made this world a much smaller one, and a more competitive one..... America needs to shape up fast, or it will not be the super power it used to be very shortly......a cultural and lifestyle change is needed! no more spending on things you do not need, 1 small house, 1 small car.... thats it!

as for the car industry, people are going to buy the better, cheaper product regardless of patriotic feelings....who are we kidding? these big three CEOs will sell there mom's if they make money from that, All these shows of patriotism are nothing but that...shows! ...

These are global corporations, and they have to compete on the global market to make money. if gas is $1.70 in America, it is still $4 in the UK, or even $10 in Germany !!! no one is going to buy an over-priced, over-sized, gas guzzler because that is not how people in the rest of world live....if you want to compete, you have to play buy the rules, and not break the rules...

They brought this to themselves by hiring heartless, self centered, management, and most importantly by slacking on R&D, and just recycling old products..... they should be working on smaller, more efficient, more competitive cars, not chargers, challengers, and rams!

the government has to come in and save these companies, and the congress and Obama will do that. not for their "wonderful" products, but for the sake of the thousands of workers who will pay the price of the poor management, lack of vision, and greed on behalf of these corporations' executives !

what should be done is that is every single blood-sucking CEO, making millions a year should be fired. and these companies need to be restructured fast, and they have to get their priorities straight ....because if not, this will happen again very soon.....but no one will bail them out then

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:11 am

latief wrote:...and Obama will do that.

That's a good one!

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:31 am

latief wrote:These are global corporations, and they have to compete on the global market to make money.

I don't want to hear anyone complaining about the "global wages" that go along with a "global market" then. Can you live on what workers in India or China make?

latief · Post by **latief** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:11 am

Midnight_Rider wrote:
latief wrote:These are global corporations, and they have to compete on the global market to make money.
I don't want to hear anyone complaining about the "global wages" that go along with a "global market" then. Can you live on what workers in India or China make?

...I just meant that the product has to be appealing to the global market also...... no one in Europe is buying a v8 anytime soon .... and they are loosing ground in markets where they used to be strong such as the oil-rich countries.....

i just said my opinion, and I'm no market expert for sure ........so no more comments from me

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:29 am

I say we just start building cars like they have in The Flintstones powered by the "courtesy of Fred's two feet", except it would be our feet. Hey, it works for them, why not us?

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:10 am

^^Thanks for the light moment... this thread needed one.

latief wrote:i just said my opinion, and I'm no market expert for sure ........so no more comments from me

Sorry, didn't mean to bite your head off. This whole thing about the possibility of Detroit going under really has me upset but you were just stating your opinion and I respect you for it.

latief · Post by **latief** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:26 am

No problem

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:27 am

latief wrote: no one in Europe is buying a v8 anytime soon ....

TVR, Mercedes, BMW, Aston Martin, and so on. Europe sells a lot of V8s just not too many American ones.

latief · Post by **latief** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:42 am

bone-yard-racing wrote:
latief wrote: no one in Europe is buying a v8 anytime soon ....
TVR, Mercedes, BMW, Aston Martin, and so on. Europe sells a lot of V8s just not too many American ones.

Yes, yes, i agree..... but it is a matter of numbers , and these are not common cars, or as widespread as is the case here....most cars that people buy in Europe and the rest of the world have engine sizes ranging between 1.1-1.6 L. in fact the 1.3L engine size is probably the most common...driving a 2.0 is considered a luxury, as opposed to American manufacturers, where the 2.4 seems to be the overall minimum these days ....