A good reason to use Sea Foam...

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:01 pm

Here's a good reason to use Sea Foam or Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner...

2005 Neon 2.0L SOHC with 88k miles.

mopar4life · Post by **mopar4life** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:02 pm

How'd that manage to happen. We've run seafoam for years with zero problems.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:03 pm

That happend from carbon build up, not because of Sea Foam.

It's why you SHOULD use Sea Foam.

Post by **racer12306** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:11 pm

Chipped a valve from carbon buildup. Holy shit, that must of been a lot of carbon

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:16 pm

Yep, that's what happens when hot gasses go by the valve constantly. Mine were prolly close to that at 112,000 miles. (Couldn't get the valve keepers off because it wouldn't hold enough air pressure) But you wouldn't know it. It ran fine.
Deciding to upgrade to Magnum springs was a blessing in disguise. If I had just slid the cam in, my exhaust valves would be on thier way to china to make more crap to sell us.

Edit:

racer12306 wrote:Chipped a valve from carbon buildup. Holy shit, that must of been a lot of carbon

I think it is more of a cutting torch effect: the carbon gets superheated by the leak and heats the valve face metal enough so the air rushing past blows it out the exhaust port. A good enough vacuum leak on the ol' 1.7 VW engines in the early Omni's does the same thing. Putting that big azz rubber spacer under the carb wasn't one of DCX's brighter ideas.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:44 pm

occasional demons wrote:Yep, that's what happens when hot gasses go by the valve constantly. Mine were prolly close to that at 112,000 miles. (Couldn't get the valve keepers off because it wouldn't hold enough air pressure) But you wouldn't know it. It ran fine.

This motor ran like shit. Would barely idle.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:49 pm

As would be expected! My valves were still fine, just at that borderline of massive cabon build up. I really don't know how the exhaust was getting out.

mopar4life · Post by **mopar4life** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:05 pm

03blackrt wrote:That happend from carbon build up, not because of Sea Foam. It's why you SHOULD use Sea Foam.

Gotcha, kinda looked at the pics before I read anything lol. I put some in my 4wd D-150 last night and it has run alot smoother and hasnt smoked near as much as it used to. I think the valve seals are about gone though.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:32 pm

Honestly, that head isn't even close to being "massively" carboned up in any way. Really it doesn't even look horrible. I doubt the carbon that is there caused any issue. More than likely given how that valve looks I would suspect a chipped or cracked valve due to a manufacturing defect. Carbon won't chip a valve, it's too soft. Normally it just holds the offending valve open giving you an audible indication something isn't right when that cylinder fires.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:39 pm

I ran a full can of Sea Foam through the intake just prior to removing the head (Hoping that maybe it was just carbon holding the valve open.). So it's somewhat 'clean'. IMO, any defect in the valve likely would have presented a problem much sooner.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:44 am

We are actually seeing the 3.7L jeep engines fail because of carbon build up. The engines are built so tight that enough carbon build up on the valves is causing the pistons to slap them and eventually take out the engine. The newer engines are also showing signs of misfire due to carbon build up and the valve not being able to close properly, and this intern also allows the piston to hit the valve...

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:08 am

fixitmattman wrote:Honestly, that head isn't even close to being "massively" carboned up in any way. Really it doesn't even look horrible. I doubt the carbon that is there caused any issue. More than likely given how that valve looks I would suspect a chipped or cracked valve due to a manufacturing defect. Carbon won't chip a valve, it's too soft. Normally it just holds the offending valve open giving you an audible indication something isn't right when that cylinder fires.

What you also don't see is the "carbon ball" behind the valve practically blocking the port. My combustion chambers looked better than that without seafoam, it was what I found once I looked in the exhaust ports and pulled the valves that shocked me. the carbon was built up so much on the back of the valve that it was hitting the roof of the port. just enough to hold them off the seats to where air was leaking out the exhaust when I put compressed air on it to remove the valve springs, but it hadn't gotten bad enough to run poorly. My theory is the oil getting sucked into the intake, combined with worn guides caused the bulk of it, or the excess weight didn't help out the guides either. That extra slug of oil in the combustion process every now and then can't be good as far as deposits go.

jake_tim · Post by **jake_tim** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:41 pm

My car has been skipping and misfiring lately, I think Ill run some seafoam next time I change my spark plugs.

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:51 pm

Do you have to change your spark plugs when you use this stuff? I just changed mine not long ago.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:53 pm

It is recommended, but I have done the GF's car and not changed them. Haven't had any issues out it. If nothing else, since neons plugs are easy to get to, pull them and check to make sure a chunk of goo isn't stuck to one.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:03 pm

Wow, I think I'm gonna seafoam my car this week after looking at that. My car has been acting funny lately, feels like I'm driving with the a/c on for minute then it drives fine.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:21 pm

If you have the HVAC set to defrost, well it is on for a minute, give/take.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:25 am

That was the first thing I checked, but nope it was off. It felt weaker than it does with the a/c on so I knew it was something else. I pushed in the clutch and tried to rev the piss out of it, then it popped around 2k rpms and was back to normal. This will be the 2nd time it's happened in 1 week, both times it popped/backfired at low rpms before returning to normal. It only last as long as I'm accelerating in gear, once I rev it in neutral it seems to stop. No cel either

Damn, sorry I semi-hijacked your thread, hope your car is doing better.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:33 pm

Maybe your CPS is acting up, you have an injector sticking, or arcing at the coil. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I was just kidding about the defrost.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:12 pm

occasional demons wrote:What you also don't see is the "carbon ball" behind the valve practically blocking the port. My combustion chambers looked better than that without seafoam, it was what I found once I looked in the exhaust ports and pulled the valves that shocked me. the carbon was built up so much on the back of the valve that it was hitting the roof of the port. just enough to hold them off the seats to where air was leaking out the exhaust when I put compressed air on it to remove the valve springs, but it hadn't gotten bad enough to run poorly. My theory is the oil getting sucked into the intake, combined with worn guides caused the bulk of it, or the excess weight didn't help out the guides either. That extra slug of oil in the combustion process every now and then can't be good as far as deposits go.

So it's a bigger problem than just normal carbon build up. Like I said with the valves looking the way they did and the head looking the way it did there's no way that amount of cabon caused any issue blowing a hole through a valve. If you've got a blocked port behind the valve you've got other massive oil control issues that a can of sea-foam can't fix.

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:23 am

I just put a bottle of Seafoam in my gas tank and sucked a bottle through the vacuum line. Man that was great seeing the smoke coming out from the back of my car. My neighbors across the street where like, "What the hell?" When I took it for a drive, it stuttered and shook and just about died as I was pulling out of my neighborhood, but then after one really large cloud of smoke exited my exhaust it ran like a freaking champ. Going to change my oil on Tuesday so that's when I'll pour some in with the old oil. I need to do this more often.

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:02 am

i have a can of seafoam..........................maybe i need to pick up another can.....

the one thing i wont do is pour it into the oil...i use only synthetic oil which WONT burn onto stuff and gunk up in the crank case, and i know this from experience...I changed my pan at 60k miles and it looked BRAND NEW on the inside......

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:29 am

fixitmattman wrote:So it's a bigger problem than just normal carbon build up. Like I said with the valves looking the way they did and the head looking the way it did there's no way that amount of cabon caused any issue blowing a hole through a valve. If you've got a blocked port behind the valve you've got other massive oil control issues that a can of sea-foam can't fix.

Using it regularly will prevent it tho.
What prolly happened was something held the valve off it's seat, caused it to go lean, from unburned fuel getting pushed by, and the lean condition helped generate the blowtorch effect you see on the valve. That valve looks excactly the same as the one in my Dad's old Omni engine when the rubber spacer under the carb cracked.

NiteHawk wrote:i use only synthetic oil which WONT burn onto stuff and gunk up in the crank case, and i know this from experience...I changed my pan at 60k miles and it looked BRAND NEW on the inside......

Mine used synthectic for the last 60,000 before I tore it apart. That is the mileage that I know it was used. The previous owner said it was all he used. But I can only take his word for that. So yes it will carbon up valves. I know there was oil getting to the exhaust valves, because the guides were wasted. The seals may still have been soft, but with that kind of side play, there is bound to be oil getting by. But I can agree, the internals do look damn nice for 120,000 mi.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:09 am

ehhh seafoam is overrated. good maintenance FTW

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:09 pm

racer12306 wrote:ehhh seafoam is overrated. good maintenance FTW

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:19 pm

in the 127666miles i've put on Cheri, I cant recall ever running a fuel system cleaner or treatment, and there's no maintainance that can prevent carbon buildup inside the chamber, so seafoam does have a purpose...

i'de rather use that valvoline stuff though, its hooked up to the car also by vac line, but it looks like an IV for your car and that stuff works great......just very expensive

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:48 pm

My old 99 dodge neon I used to own started having MASSIVE missfires out of no where one day while driving. It would not stay running on its own, and totally putted below 3K rpms. I was out of town and had to drive about 30 miles back. Had a hard time starting it when it stalled for the first time, and once driving on the highway it seemed fine. Come to below 3K again and missfires came again. I took a can of Seafoam to it, and some in the fuel tank, and it cured every last symptom of the misfires and ran perfect afterwards. From that point forward, I been seafoaming about every 10k miles to keep it cleans.