PADS

SOKADAO954 · Post by **SOKADAO954** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:53 pm

ok so im going to change my brake pads i know theres good brands oput there but what u guys think works better with our neons?? any ideas

OB · Post by OB » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:03 pm

Personally, I use Hawk pads. They're considered by many to be one of the best available for our cars. They come in two main varieties: HP-Plus and HPS. The latter are designed to be used with stock rotor material and design, while the Plus model are oriented for a track brake setup. Expect to pay about $60 for a set of HPS. Not cheap, but well worth it.

patiofurnituregt · Post by **patiofurnituregt** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:07 pm

yup, Hawk pads!! although EBC pads are what I use on my DH bike and they work awesome...I don't really know there rep in the car industry..

Get some Hawk pads or atleast get some semi metallic pads if you want to go less expensive

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:01 pm

+1 on the Hawks....depending on application.

I've been using HP+ for autocross and daily driver use. They work awesome, make noise, wear out quicker than HPS, wear out the rotor a little faster, and they are dusty....but I cannot recommend them for track/road course use....maybe a lap or two, but not much more than that until they cool off completely. I turned part of the phenolic piston into ash and warped the pads with track use on a dry day....no trouble in the rain on a cool spring day. I haven't run HPS's in about 70,000 miles, before I ever autox'd or tracked the car. I seem to remember them being almost as grippy as the HP+, less dust, but fading much quicker....like 60 to 0 as short as possible, 3 times in a row and then no brakes till they cool....maybe I expect wayyy tooo much from my brakes.

I don't have a pic of the piston....I'll see, maybe this weekend. Here's a pic of the inboard pad:

So, I'm in the same boat....but what's a good pad for track use? And can I run it on the street? I keep 'em warm on the street too....118 to 65 a couple times in a row and the HPS fade out pretty bad too.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:05 pm

I have EBC and love them. IIRC there is a prouduct review for pads.

Edit: that pad looks like it was binding on the ends, pushing the center in. If you have dibbits worn into the knuckle you may have to smooth them out, or replace the knuckle. It would be nice if DCX would have put some kind of sleeve or hardened wear surface there. They put stainless liners on the trucks. But nothing good for us!

sidepipe87 · Post by **sidepipe87** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:54 am

I have Duralast Gold from Auto Zone. They are semi metallic and leave absolutely no brake dust on the wheels. I love it.

patiofurnituregt · Post by **patiofurnituregt** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:59 am

For road racing I dont think there are any really good pads...I have a friend that road raced his SRT and he always complained about brake fade..For auto-x HP+ will do fine, with a good rotors like from rotora.

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:40 am

Pads will only get you so far, track wise. Upgrading them is sufficient on a street car. For track use, upgraded fluid that is well bled will help a lot, as well as larger, thicker rotors designed to put up with more heat. Finding a way to cool the brakes is another good way to cut down on fade. And we can't forget SS braided lines!

Neons don't weigh very much, which is a plus in the braking department. A big brake kit is overkill on anything other than a dedicated road race car. SRT brakes with performance rotors and pads should be more than enough for 99% of us.

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:20 am

patiofurnituregt wrote:For road racing I dont think there are any really good pads...I have a friend that road raced his SRT and he always complained about brake fade..For auto-x HP+ will do fine, with a good rotors like from rotora.

Carbotech 12s, youll never get them hot enough on the street to do anything but they come alive once they are hot.

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:51 am

Sorry to thread jack, but since we're on the subject of brakes, what would be a good pair of rotors to get?

patiofurnituregt · Post by **patiofurnituregt** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:13 pm

Power slots and Rotoras or Brembo for SRT4!

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:44 pm

RacingBrake

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:47 pm

occasional demons wrote:I have EBC and love them. IIRC there is a prouduct review for pads.

Edit: that pad looks like it was binding on the ends, pushing the center in. If you have dibbits worn into the knuckle you may have to smooth them out, or replace the knuckle. It would be nice if DCX would have put some kind of sleeve or hardened wear surface there. They put stainless liners on the trucks. But nothing good for us!

I got them REALLY hot. The paint on the backing plates is gone....bare cooked metal.

I checked out the "wear" surfaces on the caliper mounting bracket, all was fine. I still have the calipers....I'll get pics this weekend of the ashed/burnt piston face.

The pad compound is for autocross, NOT road racing. (I should have NEVER run them on the track but, I was assured by some corvette drivers and others that they would be fine for track use....so I did.) I don't have any technical data for proof, but I suspect the pads (like say, for instance autocross compound tires) are designed to heat up quickly and produce a lot of bite/grip. The HP+ pads do have a lot of grip even when they are cold, and even more when they get warm....but I don't think they're designed to withstand extended extreme high heat. Autox lap is usually only 1 lap and completed in a minute or so....or even 30 secs.

I'm not trying to condemn your observation....cuz' it's a good one....or argue with you....please don't get the wrong idea. I think in my case, it was a heat problem. Also, the pads were getting close to the end of their life before I even got on the track....a few hours of practice put 'em past their end. I think the combination of heat and my heavy foot on the brake pedal trying to go deeper into a corner at the end of the fastest section of the track caused the piston pressure area to wear out faster than the ends of the pads....and bend the backing plates.

I dunno. I just don't want anyone to make the same mistake I did and run HP+ on the track in their stock neon and expect too much from them. I will continue to run them on the street until I can try out some carbotechs and some Hawk blues on the track.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:50 pm

I murdered my HP+ on the road course to the point of boiling the fluid in the caliper and they never went like that at all, nor did I have any issues with the piston.

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:50 pm

fixitmattman wrote:I murdered my HP+ on the road course to the point of boiling the fluid in the caliper and they never went like that at all, nor did I have any issues with the piston.

Oh, I definately had to bleed 'em after that incident

My rotors also show stress cracks on the friction surface that line up with the cooling fins in between the rotor surfaces....from my normal street driving.

The conditions of my incident were:

Pocono South Course.
A hot mid-July afternoon in PA.
Speedo said 100mph before I had to brake down to ~50-60....possibly 40.
I just kept going around and around. I stayed out for 30-60 minute sessions each time.

Do you crack your rotors on the track? on the street? What fluid do you use? Do you have ABS? How long did you stay out for?

Just curious....I'm sure I have to learn how to brake more properly....and/or expect less from my brakes.

My deepest apologies to SOKADAO954 for hijacking this thread.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:01 pm

It was 20-30 degC when I was at Mosport DDT. A lot of it was consistant hard braking from about 100km/hr, on the back straightaway I was breaking over130km/hr, then braking hard for a tight turn. It it's not a large straightaway, the track is pretty short, but technical. Lots of places to gain fair speed, then brake hard and turn in. The rotors were hot enough that they turned blue, but they never cracked. I could go for about 15 min of intense driving before the std. Dot 3 would boil. I could feel the pads start to grip less with the heat soak, but they were still grabbing good. Less hard on the brakes and a flush and I could last the entire 20 min session and they still grabbed great. A little ventilation and some better fluid and I doubt I would have had any issues, granted the fronts were working pretty hard as I still have stock drums in the back.

Base model 2000, no ABS or anything else.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:37 am

my87csx481 wrote:
fixitmattman wrote:I murdered my HP+ on the road course to the point of boiling the fluid in the caliper and they never went like that at all, nor did I have any issues with the piston.
I stayed out for 30-60 minute sessions each time.

Hmm I think I found your problem...

Even the best built brake system on a street car is going to have issues with prolonged use to that extent. A few laps straight is one thing, but 30 mins or more? Yikes

Speeder · Post by **Speeder** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:19 pm

i have the EBC greenstuff pads they work great but man they brake dust.........
its easy to clean off tho but its there after a few stops

since i was do a brake job i also but on EBC rotors and they are a great match to the pads

Speeder · Post by **Speeder** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:11 pm

here are what the EBC look like after some miles on them

benzsxt · Post by **benzsxt** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:58 pm

I also have the EBC greenstuff. Big time upgrade from stock but they do get a lot of dust.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:12 pm

sidepipe87 wrote:I have Duralast Gold from Auto Zone. They are semi metallic and leave absolutely no brake dust on the wheels. I love it.

Duralast Gold is nice, but Duralast Gold C-MAX is better. Ceramic and some crazy multilayer shims. That's what I'll be going with when I do my next brake change.

Here's a review from some Lancer Evo guy who lives in my area... sounds like good results from those who've run them:

Duralast Gold C-MAX review

He's right tho, the back of the box has some lame crap on it, poor promotional wording. But the pads themselves are pretty damn good for the price.

Although "Maximum ceramic formulation" sounds so damn "engrish" lol. Must have been aimed at the Jap tuner communities