bore out cyclinders

synviper · Post by **synviper** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:41 pm

newb question

... my parents used to have a mustang that hade bored out cyclinder heads or the cylinder itself idk (newb)... anyways if i would go with an all motor neon and bored the cylinder and 10:5 compression pistons and all the other associated parts such as cam.. cam gear.. motor mounts.. blah blah blah... would i see any real horse power gain

by the way i have 2003 dodge neon se DD? someone said 10:5 would be alot of engine braking when i let off the throttle idk thats what he said.. someone shot me back some comments..

thanks

jake

OB · Post by OB » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:48 am

Boring the cylinder and going to an oversize piston can increase displacement a bit, but if you over-do it you might run into issues with the water jackets in the block. Compression that high would be great for power, but would require significant tuning to run properly and reliably. If you just do internal work without computer tuning you can plan on minimal power gains and a good shot at a blown engine. Your aftermarket standalone computer options are limited, with Megasquirt being the most popular in the Neon crowd due to low price and great features. Do some research, especially in the FAQ Engine and Tuning sections.

As far as the engine brake theory goes, higher compression naturally increases cylinder pressures, both on accel and decel. So you might notice a difference in decel, but probably nothing drastic.

asanti · Post by **asanti** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:11 am

Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?

Later
Allex

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:37 pm

asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?

Later
Allex

IIRC, Hudson Neon is/has, but haven't seen much of him lately here.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:41 pm

^ IIRC his dyno test was inconclusive. His cam gear fell apart on the dyno (and he scored the cylinder head too, IIRC.)

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:25 pm

i have seen overbores in a neon up to .120, but that was a 1/4 mile only car. you will be safe up to about .060 if you get the block sonicly checked for thickness, but its not worth it imo. you will get better results from higher comp pistons and milling the head.

OB · Post by OB » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:30 pm

asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?

Later
Allex

I have yet to see anyone successfully build a high comp engine w/o a standalone, NGC or not. No stock PCM can be used for a race engine, why do people always blame NGC

Show me a 00-02 with a stock computer and built engine. Even just one.

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:09 pm

wait till mine is done, the afx still qualifies as a stock based computer.

OB · Post by OB » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:12 pm

Isn't it a complete replacement though? I'd say that doesn't count, even if they do use parts of the stock PCM.

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:15 pm

its the stock pcm re programed with higher rev limit, no speed cut and advanced timing. the only reason it is needed is the extra rpm's for the large cam

OB · Post by OB » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:28 pm

Do you get to set the timing based on what's ideal for your setup, or is it just a generic advance that all the PCMs get? Has anyone ever asked Howell about doing the same for the NGC PCM's? Or does everyone just assume that the same couldn't be done with them?

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:32 pm

nope it is generic, definately not ideal, but better than stock. howell will not make one for the ngc, it has been asked; not that anybody wants to deal with him

asanti · Post by **asanti** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:07 pm

OB wrote:
asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?

Later
Allex
I have yet to see anyone successfully build a high comp engine w/o a standalone, NGC or not. No stock PCM can be used for a race engine, why do people always blame NGC

Show me a 00-02 with a stock computer and built engine. Even just one.

Umm, here kind of lol!

Once I get this block installed, the AFX/R I've been runnin for 5 yrs along with the Neo I'm getting installed tomorrow will do me fine.

Later
Allex

OB · Post by OB » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:39 pm

An AFX/R isn't stock. IMO it is a poor substitute for a properly tuned computer, since it is in no way designed to work with specific parts. Why spend thousands of dollars on an engine only to sell it short with a generic tune?

asanti · Post by **asanti** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:48 am

OB wrote:An AFX/R isn't stock. IMO it is a poor substitute for a properly tuned computer, since it is in no way designed to work with specific parts. Why spend thousands of dollars on an engine only to sell it short with a generic tune?

Oh I know it's not stock.... but it's not a full standalone either.

Umm, here kind of lol!

<--- that was me, being sarcastic OB.

Later
Allex

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:38 am

occasional demons wrote:
asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?

Later
Allex
IIRC, Hudson Neon is/has, but haven't seen much of him lately here.

that is correct. i have. the dyno didn't go so hot last spring, but i plan on hitting the dyno again this spring. i'll let you know what's up.

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:42 am

*faints*

he's back

hul kogan · Post by **hul kogan** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:10 pm

racer12306 wrote:

*faints*

he's back

No wai! That's not rly him.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:25 pm

Welcome NOOBIE!

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:47 pm

OB wrote:An AFX/R isn't stock. IMO it is a poor substitute for a properly tuned computer, since it is in no way designed to work with specific parts. Why spend thousands of dollars on an engine only to sell it short with a generic tune?

Well then, I guess I have to throw away my mopar DOHC computer and SAFC2 on my 98. I'm making great power for the mods I have, but my generic tune and all is a waste. I guess a true standalone is the only way to go.

For neons, the AFX is good substitute if you still have to run a PCM for emissions reasons. What we really need is a good bit of timing (that the AFX gives) and a high rev limiter (that the AFX gives), with decent fuel trims (imagine that, the AFX does good with that too). For someone that wants a plug and play setup, it works great (when it works).