Lower Control Arm Bolts Help?

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:59 pm

Okay, so we're (a buddy and I) about 3 hours into replacing my bushings for my Lower Control Arms (LCA) and well, we've got one bolt out. The big one towards the rear of the LCA is about 1/3 of the way out, but it's been a bastard to get that far and we're afraid of snapping the bolt. We've already snapped an adapter and a socket and we're now on socket #2. We've tried an air impact wrench at 90 psi and it's not even budging with that... We've been using a big ratchet and a 24" cheater bar to get it as far as we've gotten it. Is there a trick to this? Are we being too "gentle" on it? Anyone ever snap this bolt?

Any kind of advice would be great - I kinda' need this "project" done by tomorrow afternoon. Thanks guys!

billm0066 · Post by **billm0066** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:16 pm

I took mine to a shop and they used an aceltylene torch to heat it up. Theres some things I do myself, but things like this is what a good shop is for. If you are comfortable trying to go farther with it, then do it, but you run the risk of breaking the bolt and having to cut into the frame to weld a new nut in there. This is about the vertical bolt, not the horizontal.

Boyscoutgonebad · Post by **Boyscoutgonebad** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:25 pm

had similar problems on the rear suspension, luckily i had access to an acetylene torch to heat things up. my best advice is soak it with PB blaster overnight and then heat it up the best you can.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:35 pm

If nothing else, run it back up, and drill a small hole where the bolt is in the side of the "frame" spray penetrating oil in there to hit the bolt and keep working it in and out till it comes out.
I was fortunate in that my car has only spent the last 5 years in Ohio. I sprayed everthing a week before hand just to be safe tho.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:01 pm

It's soaked pretty good with PB Blaster at the moment and it'll be soaking overnight so that might help a bit. The closest thing I have to a torch is just a small propane BernzOmatic, though. Before we go reefing on it again tomorrow, we'll try heating it up. I'll consider the idea of drilling a hole to get to the other side of the bolt, too, depending on how far the other options get us. I'll keep ya' posted!

Thanks, guys!

nate-00neon · Post by **nate-00neon** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:30 pm

its torqued down to 150ft/lbs...you wont break it. what i did was put a breaker bar on it with a 3ft pipe, just go slow with steady pressure, you will get it past the point where it is stuck and then it will be easy again, it may take you 20 mins or more to get to the easy point tho.

good luck!

hul kogan · Post by **hul kogan** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:50 pm

Have a look here for more ideas...

viewtopic.php?t=40178

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:30 pm

nate-00neon wrote:its torqued down to 150ft/lbs...you wont break it.

No?

I sure as hell snapped mine of in the frame. You can't get hardly any penetrant on it, nowhere useful to stick the torch until you break it off and get the control arm out.

Previously I broke my 1/2" ratchet and bent my 24" breaker bar while a 3-4ft pipe was on it.

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:40 am

I did mine by running the impact gun on it back and forth untill it came out.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:47 am

they are held in with something similar to red thread locker which is why you are told to heat them. its just a bitch.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:12 am

ragek23 wrote:I did mine by running the impact gun on it back and forth untill it came out.

Like tighten/loosen/tighten/loosen?

Yeah, I'll definitely be heating it tomorrow.

fixitmattman - How did you get the broken bolt out after it broke?

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:39 am

yeah tighten/ loosen/ tighten /loosen, eventually it came out.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:35 pm

03sxt wrote: fixitmattman - How did you get the broken bolt out after it broke?

Drilled out a bit of the bolt, managed to bend back the lower bracket on the crossmember and wiggle out the control arm. Once I had the arm out I made it cherry red with the torch and used a pipe wrench. Came out like butter then. Impact, working with a breaker bar, nothing would touch it before it broke, was just too rusted.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:48 pm

UPDATE: Yeah, it's broke. Well, the buddy that was helping me (an ASE Certified mechanic, by the way) took the car to his uncle's shop and put it up on a lift today. Well, the original bolt we were having a hard time with we finally got to come out after doing what Ragek23 did. Well, the one on the other side didn't quite work as well. The plate and the nut on the other side (inside the "frame/body" is fubar'd so it's just spinning with the bolt now. Yayyy! What does this mean? Well, the Neon gets to have a whole cut in the side of it to access the bolt and get this situation taken care of. We'll then have to put the metal back in place, weld it shut and re-undercoat that area. The way these mounts are - It's ridiculous. The engineer who thought of this way to mount the LCAs should be shot.

I'll be back at it again in the morning and trust me, I'll be taking some pictures to share the destruction of the Neon with everyone.

My advice to anyone else planning to do LCA bushings - TAKE IT TO A REPUTABLE MECHANIC... And make sure they set a flat rate to charge you regardless of what happens. These things are a pain the ass!

*sigh*

Boyscoutgonebad · Post by **Boyscoutgonebad** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:28 am

I was planing on tackling this project in a couple months. After reading this I'm starting to rethink my plans.

thttxboy · Post by **thttxboy** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Man these are just like any other project sometimes things go right and sometimes no. I you feel comfortable doing this do it its not rocket science. Just remember to use some type of penetrating oil and take ur time most mistakes happen from people being impatient.

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:54 pm

I believe most dealerships will do these at a fixed rate.

Pablodragon · Post by **Pablodragon** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:43 pm

ragek23 wrote:I believe most dealerships will do these at a fixed rate.

wow...with all these comments...almost seems worth what the stealerships charge.....

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:51 pm

03sxt wrote:My advice to anyone else planning to do LCA bushings - TAKE IT TO A REPUTABLE (????) MECHANIC... And make sure they set a flat rate to charge you regardless of what happens. These things are a pain the ass!
*sigh*

Actually, I don't TRUST 'mechanics' to do the job right...... still 'druther do it myself.

All the same, if you do it yourself, be sure you make contingency plans, have another vehicle to take to work, etc...... because more often than not, you'll end up having to deal with that bolt inside the frame breaking loose.

This is a KNOWN problem area for the 1st Gen Neons, but I have not heard of these being an issue on 2nd Gens..... until now.
Now that these cars are getting up there in miles and getting older, this is going to be a problem.

HERE is some information from 'The.Org' (Neons.Org) on removing & replacing the nuts inside the frame.
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=320244
Warning: It's time consuming.
NOT impossible, but time consuming....and it Sucks.

- Nick

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:48 pm

Well, everyone can take my advice as you wish. Some people WOULD rather do this on their own - And if you'd like to, that's great - Go for it. I feel that with my general knowledge and my tool supply that I would have been screwed if I didn't have an ASE Certified mechanic as a friend (with good welding skills) with access to a lift and a shit-ton of tools. Sure, things go wrong - I didn't say that they don't. And as far as being impatient, we were far from impatient. We milked that bolt as much as we could and if anything, that's why the nut and the plate broke.

I'm just glad that I'll never have to do this again. The only front suspension work that I should ever have to do is struts.

I'm starting a picture thread in the Picture Post section for everyone to check out. It was quite the experience...

Edit: Link to pictures - viewtopic.php?p=559415

Never again...

thttxboy · Post by **thttxboy** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:17 pm

never said u were impatient just stating that patience is necessary for this kind of project.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:53 pm

thttxboy wrote:never said u were impatient just stating that patience is necessary for this kind of project.

I definitely agree!

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:01 am

but I have not heard of these being an issue on 2nd Gens..... until now.

Any PT or Neon that comse into our shop gets checked, its a very well known issue.I'm on my 2nd set myself.Although this time around I used TRW's VS Mopar so in about a year when mine are shot again, the parts will be free.
The first trick to getting these loose is to plan ahead.Get the MOPAR rust penitrant 4318039, also known as heat riser solvent.Soak the inner frame rail through the lower access hole, this penetrant will help loosen up the bolt.
If your balsy enough to try this at home so be it, but a shop is ready to pull out the torches and welder any time these come in for LCA bushings....

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:12 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:If your balsy enough to try this at home so be it, but a shop is ready to pull out the torches and welder any time these come in for LCA bushings....

WORD. It came in real handy for us!

Boyscoutgonebad · Post by **Boyscoutgonebad** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:20 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:
The first trick to getting these loose is to plan ahead.Get the MOPAR rust penitrant 4318039, also known as heat riser solvent.Soak the inner frame rail through the lower access hole, this penetrant will help loosen up the bolt.

Is that anything different than penetrating oil like PB Blaster? also whey you say lower access hole are you referring to the hole that is a few inches away from the bolt towards the rear of the car?

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:33 pm

Boyscoutgonebad wrote: also whey you say lower access hole are you referring to the hole that is a few inches away from the bolt towards the rear of the car?

Come to think of it, I think thats the hole I used to soak mine beforehand. I just used good old WD-40. But then mine wasn't rusted to the gills. The crossmember was, but the bolts weren't extremely bad.

I bought (and used) new bolts anyways.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:54 pm

Boyscoutgonebad wrote:also whey you say lower access hole are you referring to the hole that is a few inches away from the bolt towards the rear of the car?

Yep. That's where we soaked the bolts with PB Blaster. I think we went through 2 cans for this project, so have a couple available.

Boyscoutgonebad · Post by **Boyscoutgonebad** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:01 pm

I picked up 3 cans today, hopefully it helps.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:30 am

Boyscoutgonebad wrote:I picked up 3 cans today, hopefully it helps.

Swordfish2Cowboy · Post by **Swordfish2Cowboy** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:09 am

Man this shit sounds scary. Any way around this?