People with Underdrive pullies...

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:57 am

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampe ... _dinan.htm

Great article about them. Might change your mind..

mopar4life · Post by **mopar4life** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:00 pm

From what I understand our engines are interally balanced so they dont need a damper on them. Which would mean its safe to run an underdrive, now other engines like a 440 would have to have a damper on them.

onewickedkid05 · Post by **onewickedkid05** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:31 pm

if you take notice they are talking mainly about the bmw......its a known fact that putting an underdrive on those engines can cause damage its the same for many different cars however the neon seems to be one of those tough as nails cars that can handle it so

to bmws neon = ownd

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:47 pm

The pic under this paraghraph: Torsional Vibration (Natural Frequency) labeled "Amplitude of torsional vibration..." supports my theory, excactly why NGC engines don't have the P0300 misfire CEL. The crank trigger wheel for NGC engines is at the flywheel end. 2002 - older are at the dampner end.

My '01 is very specific on which tooth of the wheel is fluctuating. P0302. There is nothing wrong with the coil/wire/plug/injector on #2 cyl. It only started with the UDP install, and only above 5000 rpm.

This should also be in "Engine" instead of OT.

neonslg09 · Post by **neonslg09** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:01 pm

and now it is

neons > bmws

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:18 pm

There are people that have had their UDP's on for nearly 100,000 miles. I currently have around 30,000 on mine.

No problems. If it was a big problem we would have seen it already and it wouldn't be such a popular mod.

onewickedkid05 · Post by **onewickedkid05** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:35 pm

neon motor = Beast

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:55 pm

Our cranks just know how to roll with the punches. It' s part of being Dodge.

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:38 pm

occasional demons wrote:Our cranks just know how to roll with the punches. It' s part of being Dodge.

\

LMAO Quoted.

alsey_seven · Post by **alsey_seven** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:55 pm

mopar4life wrote:From what I understand our engines are interally balanced so they dont need a damper on them. Which would mean its safe to run an underdrive, now other engines like a 440 would have to have a damper on them.

this is so true when i fixed up my car. I must have left the engine on 20 minutes with the damper. and no vibrations.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:01 pm

It was a good article. And as it has been said already, some engines (like ours) hold up just fine without the damping.

Now, if we can just rid our selves of the pre-03 mis fire codes...

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:50 pm

First things first ATI makes "performance" harmonic dampers so as far as Im concerned they are saying this shit to sell product. Its a great thing will all the advertising law in this world there is nothing about making up engineering principals to make yourself sound smart and your competition sound like shit.

An internally balanced 4cyl that only revs to 6500rpm is way different than an externally balanced I6 that revs to 8500. The importance of balance increases on a curve the faster you spin whatever you're trying to balance. Vibration becomes more noticeable and more damaging to the parts.

Why are engine failures so common on BMW "performance" engines? There are several theories however I continue to believe if you look at the bestl of BMWs engine line up it was the M3 I6 333hp from 3.2 liters, once you cross the 100hp/liter mark with any N/A engine reliability becomes a relative term. Think about how many 2.0 neons make 200hp N/A and are daily drivers. The engine is heavily stressed in stock form and it doesnt get any better as you add/subtract parts especially parts of suspect engineering.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:47 pm

So your saying they are trying to sway a persons opinion to sell a product?!!??!?!?!

SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!!

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:49 pm

Nah, I doubt it. No company would stoop that low. And besides, any customer interested in such a product wouldn't simply take that info at face value and accept it as pure 100% un-biased fact.

Right...WTF am I thinking?!?!?

blueneo03 · Post by **blueneo03** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:55 pm

occasional demons wrote:The pic under this paraghraph: Torsional Vibration (Natural Frequency) labeled "Amplitude of torsional vibration..." supports my theory, excactly why NGC engines don't have the P0300 misfire CEL. The crank trigger wheel for NGC engines is at the flywheel end. 2002 - older are at the dampner end.

My '01 is very specific on which tooth of the wheel is fluctuating. P0302. There is nothing wrong with the coil/wire/plug/injector on #2 cyl. It only started with the UDP install, and only above 5000 rpm.

This should also be in "Engine" instead of OT.

i actually just got a cel p0300....

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:00 pm

This has nothing to do with the robustness of the neon engine or our engine being better than others. Like many other engines our engine has a fully balanced crank/rotating assembly. Other engine designs use a main crank/drive pulley that is counterweighted to help balance the rotating assembly. Do not confuse this with a torsionally damped crank pulley (which the neon is stock). These pulleys have a rubber isolation layer to help curb noise and torsional shock from say for example the ac clutch engagement. You can replace these just fine with a solid UDP as many of us have on our neons. You cannot replace an externally balanced pulley with a solid UDP as you will have vibration issues which can have devastating results.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:20 pm

Well you could, if the solid pulley was counter balanced as well. But good luck finding such an animal.

The rubber ring is also there to absorb torsional shock from the pistons firing. The biggest reason a 2.0/belt driven OHC engine will live without a dampner vs, say an old school push rod engine: Timing belt.
The belt is a very good shock absorber. A chain driven cam will not have the benefit of that long belt flexing and stretching that little bit to absorb the frequencies from both the crank and the cam.

I remeber reading some where, a while ago, that some engines don't have a dampner for this very reason.

OB · Post by OB » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:24 pm

Balance-wise, so long as the replacement pulley is balanced to begin with, it will not disrupt the balance of the crank and lower end rotation assy. Vibration is a different story. I was concerned at first, but decided to give it a shot anyway. No issues to speak of so far (only a few thousand miles).

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:24 am

This is just one of those situations where specific applications are generalized to apply to all vehicles. It's just like tire pressure and suspension setups applied to RWD vs FWD, the same rule doesn't apply to all vehicles. It's just another V6/V8 vs I4 difference. The countering forces of the pistons pushing from 2 different directions plays havoc on the balancing of the crankshaft in V6/V8 applications. Our pistons only push in 1 direction so it makes for a much more balanced engine.

This is why most race engines are balanced and blueprinted to account for such problems.

onewickedkid05 · Post by **onewickedkid05** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:17 am

i do hear it to be an issue in hondas as well it ruined my buddys honda motor when he used an Underdrive

neonpla · Post by **neonpla** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:02 am

neonslg09 wrote:and now it is

neons > bmws