Need some very quick help

Panhead · Post by **Panhead** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:17 pm

that grease is anti-corrosive grease so that you wont have electrical problems down the road.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:56 pm

And were all sure about that...?

Panhead · Post by **Panhead** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:34 pm

ha well i meant as connectors contacts corroding.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:35 pm

2k1MotorSport wrote:Ok so here is whats happening...

I did manage to find a fuse tester. And the first fuse that i pulled outa fuse box under the hood was bad. And it's fuse 21 (FP/ASD fuse) So i threw another 20amp one in there. And that one blew out also.

I had checked some of the grounds that could easily be reached and they were good, even the on the starter.

Could it end up being the fuel pump?

EDIT:

Also noticed that when unplugging the PCM, both connectors had a 'grease' or something on them. I don't have pics yet. Just kinda curious to know if it should be on there or not.

It could be the fuel pump.
I have heard of people blowing the fuse when their fuel pump starts going bad, due to excessive current draw.

YES, you'll want to leave the grease there...... It was put there from the factory. ( Dielectric grease, to keep the contacts from corroding.)

Glad to see that you are narrowing the problem down.....

- Nick

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:40 pm

2k1MotorSport wrote:What should i use to bridge the connections?

A short piece of wire/paper clip.

Is that fuse box pic even from a 2gn?

That looks pretty much like my PDC....

Fuse 21 powers: the fuel pump through the relay, both the coil and everything that is powered through the ASD relay, The MTV relay coil, and the PCM.
The ASD relay powers: The injectors, ign coil, alternator, and o2 sensors.

So any one of those would blow the fuse. I would start by pulling the fuel pump relay. If the fuse holds, it is the fuel pump.

But none of that should keep it from energizing the starter.

Edit: And please if you jumper #25 and #26 make sure it is not in gear! And the parking brake is set, and/or the wheels are chocked!

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:06 pm

lol i ask if that image is from a 2gn because looking at the cover the image is flipped around

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:14 pm

They show it reversed in the wiring diagram. It basically is a bottom veiw. That is why I highlighted the terminals. If you reference from the main input connection, it is not hard to figure out. Just print it out and use it as a mirror image.

If I can pull every wire out, and reassemble them in a new PDC body, and it works, then you can do this. (Believe me, it was a bit of a mind fuck.)

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:20 pm

i would think so.

so if i pull the pump relay and that blows could i do the same with the asd and the mtv relay and it wouldn't hurt anything to try to crank the car?

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:17 am

You could. The ASD relay will point you towards the stuff it powers if it doesn't blow with the relay pulled, and the fuel pump relay is in. The cranking part has me stumped tho. Unless somehow the SKIM will not let it crank. Assuming since it is an R/T, that it has SKIM. Jumping 25/26 will tell you if the starter is functioning tho.

The starter relay coil grounds through the PCM, so maybe since it has no power via the ASD, and fuse 21, it may not be switching the ground for the starter relay coil. Hmmmm....

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:48 am

It's a weird one...

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:11 pm

You need one of these.

http://www.delcity.net circuit breakers

They are tall, but fit nicely inside the PDC. It will keep breaking/resetting, until it is pulled, or the problem is found/fixed. They are graet for problems like this. Saves blowing a pile of fuses.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:55 pm

occasional demons wrote:You need one of these.

http://www.delcity.net circuit breakers

They are tall, but fit nicely inside the PDC. It will keep breaking/resetting, until it is pulled, or the problem is found/fixed. They are graet for problems like this. Saves blowing a pile of fuses.

Now this is SLICK !!!!!!

Thanks for posting this.

- Nick

rseldner · Post by **rseldner** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:57 pm

I HAD THIS SAME EXACT PROBLEM! i would be driving and then the car would just die. The problem was that the wire from the positive terminal to the PDC was bad (corrosion and broken wire filaments). I simply replaced the wire and terminal, had the battery recharged, and I was set. $10 fix. Hopefully this is the problem you're having. The car dying on you tells me there's a problem with the battery to PDC cable. Your car having power but not starting up tells me there's a problem with either the battery to starter cable, or the starter itself. If you confirm the cables are fine, then try hitting your starter. It might be stuck.

here's a pic of what my terminal looks like now. I now need to replace the red wire going to the starter.. As you can see there is some corrosion and broken filaments. I need to jiggle the wire a little to get my car started.

Here's the wire I used to connect to the PDC. You can buy it at any auto parts store.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:07 pm

But that doesn't explain the fuse blowing...

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:22 pm

Ok... today was a day to narrow this down.

We did what occasional demons had mentioned above. by pulling the relays and putting one in at a time until the fuse blew, which was the ASD relay. When you would put the ASD relay in and turn the car to On the fuse would pop. You wouldn't even have to try to crank the car and the fuse would blow.

The motor now cranks but with out the ASD relay no spark is getting to the coil pack (which is what is says in my chilton book) and we tested it to make sure.

You can hear the fuel pump kick on and the starter is doing it's job. But with no spark it won't work. We went to the junkyard and got a PCM out of a 2001 MTX and still nothing.

So, i'm leaning toward the ignition being the problem.

Needless to say i got some fuses and relays from the junkyard.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:52 pm

I'm still reading online and could another problem be the cam position sensor? I found this link online and it's kinda my problem.

http://www.autotropolis.com/cs/forums/thread/33632.aspx

v95 · Post by **v95** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:35 pm

yes but not likely if no spark is getting to the coil pack.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:46 pm

but what i'm saying... i'm not getting spark to the coil pack because i have the ASD relay out and that controls the coil. if I put it in it blows fuse 21 under the hood.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:51 pm

I would try disconnecting what the ASD powers. The o2 sensors have been known to short internally also. Basically go through the stuff I listed above.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:25 am

Well other than what you said above

The ASD relay powers: The injectors, ign coil, alternator, and o2 sensors.

What else does the ASD relay power? Cam position sensor?

If i'm going to try to pop more fuses then i need to know everything that it powers. And i'm still not ruling out the PCM.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:29 am

The ASD relay powers: The injectors, ign coil, alternator, and o2 sensors.

And PCM, but didn't you swap that already? Of course SKIM may have nailed you there after a few tries, if the JY one had it. But you never got to a few tries obviously. But if the original one was the problem, the fuse wouldn't have popped.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:50 am

Yeah i think skim took over on that one...

Well, i may try some things today. The o2 sensors are going to be the first thing left in to try to pop the fuse. I really don't have any way of getting under the car + i don't know if my fat arm could reach the upper sensor.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:03 pm

Ok.. this is what i did today.

I went out and disconnected the PCM and disconnected the coil pack and injectors (couldn't reach the o2 sensors or the alt since i'm unable to lift the car and i left the cam sensor in). I put in the ASD relay and made sure fuse 21 was still good.

I turned the key to on and the relay and fuse stayed intact. Plugged the injectors and coil pack in and turned the key to on and the fuse and relay were still good.

From there i unplugged the coil and injectors again and plugged in the PCM and turned the key to on and it blew fuse 21 again (FP/ASD fuse)

So, i pretty much ruled out the coil and injectors. What i have left is still the Alt, o2, Cam sensor, PCM and ignition.

Now i did buy a MTX PCM but i'm not sure if it is SKIM or not (which means that my car won't start if it is SKIM equipped). Would I be able to go get a Non-SKIM ATX PCM to start my car? Would it work? Since that's what the junk yard has a lot of.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:02 pm

A non SKIM pcm should work fine. As long as it is an '01 ATX there shouldn't be any CEL/codes.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:43 pm

Make sure that if you are going to try a non SKIM PCM that you disconnect the SKIM receiver (that sits around the key cylinder) first! If you don't, your non SKIM PCM magically becomes a SKIM PCM. Once the PCM sees a receiver in the system it will always look for it.

UriahRR · Post by **UriahRR** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:03 pm

^ your sig looks almost like 2k1's.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:07 am

Danteneon wrote:Make sure that if you are going to try a non SKIM PCM that you disconnect the SKIM receiver (that sits around the key cylinder) first! If you don't, your non SKIM PCM magically becomes a SKIM PCM. Once the PCM sees a receiver in the system it will always look for it.

Thank you sir.. I will remember that.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:08 am

2k1MotorSport wrote:
Danteneon wrote:Make sure that if you are going to try a non SKIM PCM that you disconnect the SKIM receiver (that sits around the key cylinder) first! If you don't, your non SKIM PCM magically becomes a SKIM PCM. Once the PCM sees a receiver in the system it will always look for it.
Thank you sir.. I will remember that.

Werd! Something to note for possible future use!

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:53 pm

Danteneon what does the skim receiver look like? Is it the black box that's like 3x2 inches?

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:33 pm

Yep. It has a ring made onto it that circles the ignition cylinder.

UriahRR wrote:^ your sig looks almost like 2k1's.

Your right, I didn't notice that before

I think both pics were taken on the same road, just a year apart.