Help ASAP. What am I looking for?

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:34 am

OK. The alternator was evidently not the problem.

Situation, starting last weeked: The only thing I noticed the first time it did it was the stereo shut off while I was driving and then came back on by itself a second later. Saturday or Sunday night when leaving work, I turned the car on and the headlights were flickering like crazy, but settled once I started driving.

Tuesday, Oct 6: On my commute to school, on the highway, the entire car shut off by itself, while I was traveling at 65MPH, and then turned back on a second later. When it turned back on, the needles performed the full sweep of max, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 and zero then went to where they were. After the third time, I pulled into a gas station and the car died. While trying to restart it, the gauges simply fluttered rapidly up and down and the lights flickered on and off. I got the car restarted and decided now would be a good time to head back home instead. On the way back, about a mile down the road at highway speed, the car did it again, but this time the transmission basically locked up for that second. It did it a total of three times, the third time was so bad the tires screached and the CEL came on. Limp-home mode as well. The car died again and the CEL went away. Then it died the very last time I pulled over and would not start period.

Car has been sitting since then until today:

Soooooooo, I replaced the alternator, believing it died, therefore killing my battery too. Started it up after replacing it. Fine. Turned the high beams on and the stereo up. Fine. Went to go drive it later on and the car did the "die" thing at start-up when I turned the headlights on IIRC and did it one time while I was driving. I went home as it did it about 30 seconds from my house.

I have no idea what might be causing this, but need to get it fixed ASAP as it is supposed to start storming Monday night and I'd much rather not commute in the Roush in inclement weather. Heavy rain + RWD car with some power + High performance summer tires = crappy commute. Plus, that turn onto Folsom Blvd. from Hwy. 16 always ends up with me 1/2 way in the other lane "drifting" around the corner in the rain, lol, even at friggin' 15 MPH.

Thanks very much in advance!

RADARsx 2.0 · Post by **RADARsx 2.0** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:51 am

Could it be your ignition its self?

I had an inermitant ground in the ignition of my old grand am and it did that other than the sterio problem..I had to put a new one in...

I am not sure but just an idea..

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:30 am

It is a possibility. Is there any way to test it?

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:06 am

Check all your grounds, even where the PCM attaches. Use an ohm meter from the strap to ground if you have to. At least you will know that it is good. A volt meter will work too. If there is any voltage from the strap to the body, then the connection is bad. Uhooking and cleaning works too. Even if they look good, there can be rust/corrosion underneath.
This can be applied to the ground points for preventative measure.

http://www.asklots.com/jump2/?affiliate ... ox%20gaurd

Is the car an ATX? Locking the tires couldn't have been good, and it would have had to locked two gears, or downshifted to do that.

I would start with the grounds, then start uhooking the all connectors and checking for corrosion/broken wires.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:57 pm

Those definitely sound like symptoms of a bad alternator, hope you track down the problem. Maybe it's a good time to upgrade the wiring to the alternator.

Swordfish2Cowboy · Post by **Swordfish2Cowboy** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:55 pm

Shit happened to me. I don't remember what it was.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:39 pm

occasional demons wrote:Check all your grounds, even where the PCM attaches. Use an ohm meter from the strap to ground if you have to. At least you will know that it is good. A volt meter will work too. If there is any voltage from the strap to the body, then the connection is bad. Uhooking and cleaning works too. Even if they look good, there can be rust/corrosion underneath.
This can be applied to the ground points for preventative measure.

http://www.asklots.com/jump2/?affiliate ... ox%20gaurd

Is the car an ATX? Locking the tires couldn't have been good, and it would have had to locked two gears, or downshifted to do that.

I would start with the grounds, then start uhooking the all connectors and checking for corrosion/broken wires.

I looked over all of the grounds that I could find and all seemed well. I'd guess it wouldn't hurt to check them with a volt/ohm meter. I have a digital multimeter, so I can check either. Yes, ATX. It pretty much seemed like it downshifted to first? No idea...

Donkeypuncher wrote:Those definitely sound like symptoms of a bad alternator, hope you track down the problem. Maybe it's a good time to upgrade the wiring to the alternator.

I replaced the alternator, and that didn't do anything. My original one is probably still good.

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:42 pm

How old is battery?

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:59 am

Not too old. It holds a charge...

I went and messed around with it a bit more tonight. When the door chime worked (key in ignition only), the odometer was very dim. When I cycled to on and start, everything shut off, then when I cycled back to off, the gas gauge swept to full, sat there and then dropped back down. Heard a rumbling at this time too. Disconnected the IAC, and it didn't do it anymore. So, that is making a noise or making something else make a noise. Either way, it stops with the IAC disconnected. When the odometer was very dim, I could cycle the key and then all of a sudden the interior light came on, door chime and the odometer went to full brightness, then it was able to actually start most of the time. Then it would die, and I'd have absolutely no power to anything again. I mean, odometer didn't work, dome light, brake lights, parking lights....anything (where it is stuck right now). If I pushed on say the brake pedal and then released, the odometer and chime came on, then went off. Even started doing that when I pushed the on button for the stereo in. Then, no power after that split second. I tested all of the grounds I could see (all of them I believe), and as far as I can tell, they are all fine. It is like something is completely randomly and intermittently cutting ALL power to everything. Fucking car...ughhhh.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:38 am

Hook a battery charger up, if you have one, or jump it to another car (better option) to see if it still does it. That would eliminate the battery. also make sure the terminals are clean.

The IAC noise is normal. They will sing you a song sometimes. Either that, or it's giving you an ass chewing.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:00 pm

I hooked up a battery charger after the first time it died, and it still did all of this nonsense. Also, a neighbor came over and told me the terminals were the cleanest he'd ever seen, lol. "You could eat off of them."

DR. GONZO · Post by **DR. GONZO** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:11 pm

i had a similar problem a few years ago it ended up being the pcm thank god it was still under warrenty

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:45 pm

Yeah, that part has crossed my mind several times. If that's the case, I'll have a nice yard ornament for some time.

So, this morning, my stereo will not turn on at all (not even the clock), but everything else works!?

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:08 pm

Anything headlight-related at all is a red-flag to check your MFS and its connector.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:32 am

^^^ I checked all of that today and it all seems to be fine.

Update however. After I drove the car around all morning and then to work without any issues, I went to leave on my lunch at work. Car started fine. I started to drive away and turned the headlights on and dead. I managed to roll to the end of the parking lot into a spot. It was to the point to where the odometer could barely be seen, even in the very cloudy weather (it's getting ready to storm up here in NorCal), and the LED dome light would not shine at all. So, I hauled ass at work and finished an hour early. My GF brought my truck down and I hooked up the jumper cables as a last chance. Before the cables were hooked up and I opened the door, there was no odometer or dome light even. After the cables got hooked up, the odometer and dome light came back, but once the key got turned to on, everything went out again. Decided the only logical thing at that point was a new battery. Wal-Mart being the only thing open past 5 PM where I live, was of course out of the replacement battery! The only batteries that were out of stock too I might add, lol. Oh, and evidently the two automotive managers are the only ones with keys in the entire store, so no one could go look for it. I bought a bigger one (525CCA vs. 450), drove back and put it in the car....started right up with no issues except the battery light coming on in the cluster. Funny that didn't come on when the last battery was apparently toast and wouldn't work. Other than me having to shove the hood down to fit over the battery, the car made it back home with no problems. I hope this is it. I have a battery tray "mod" to do in the morning so it will hopefully fit under the hood this time. We'll see in the morning...

Also, I really, really appreciate all of the help so far, especially including OB over the phone! Thank you everyone, and thank you Derek and my good friend Jon (not on here, but worth mentioning as he is always there to help as well)!!!

RADARsx 2.0 · Post by **RADARsx 2.0** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:12 am

Well I hope that your car is good to go now..I know what it's like to have a frustrating issue..just went through it with mine...

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:23 am

Yes, thank you! It was bad enough having the transmission oil pump take a crap after only having the car for about 4 months, then all of that suspension work these past few months. lol. The battery that was in there, well: 1. Had absolutely no labels on it anywhere. Just a solid black cube with two terminals, therefore, no mfr. date, no name, no brand...anything 2. Had died who knows how many times sitting in the car lot, and the few times I killed it because my stupid door chime didn't work.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:14 am

Did you have the battery blanket that has the electrical connector in it? If so, you need to hook it up, or it will not charge properly. It is a temperature sensor, so if the battery is too hot, it lowers the charging rate/voltage. With the sensor unplugged, you will get the battery light. Or if the IAT sensor is unplugged at the intake of the air filter if you didn't have the blanket sensor.

Mat · Post by **Mat** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:09 am

^^ That was going to be my next suggestion. However not all Neons actually have one. Those that don't use the Inlet Air Temp sensor (per the FSM) because certain parts of the car were designed by ingenious, sadistic bastards.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:12 pm

Personally I would rather just use one sensor. The IAT. It is one less thing to fail, and it is under $8.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:22 pm

Ugh, I have to have that dumb sensor in!? I guess it's back out into the rain to see if I can fit that stupid sleeve over my new battery (highly unlikely). The hood only sits up about 1/2" on the driver's side now. Acceptable for the time being. Way better than what it was last night.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:39 pm

The sleeve doesn't need to be on the battery. Just plugged in. If you can secure it beside the battery, it will work. If it is just the standard sleeve with out the sensor, you have another problem. It should have a code stored for the battery light being on.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:45 pm

I have the sleeve with that sensor. I got it on....by tearing a corner of it all the way down and wrapping some.......painter's tape around it to hold it on. Very ghetto ATM, which annoys the hell out of me, but it'll have to do. Turned the car on real quick to check, and the light is off, though now I have some fuel dilution in the oil. Seems to have been a win-lose on that one, lol. Thanks Bill!

Oh, and the code probably cleared since I had to remove the battery again. Woooo.....

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:33 pm

Made the commute to school with no issues. Hope this keeps up!