Coil Over Plug

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:00 pm

Not sure if this might work for some of the 2.0 Neons, but certainly works for the SRT-4's. There are 3-4 in my city running them...they say they can notice a huge difference. I personally am going to let them iron out the kinks.

You use the coil packs out of a 2.7L Chrysler Sebring and shit. Apparently they're about $40 after tax for all 4 at the junk yard.

OB · Post by OB » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:06 pm

What are they using for an ignition driver? A DIS PCM program would NOT be able to run individual coils without software modification. These guys are probably standalone. That's pretty advanced stuff for a street car IMO. Not worth all the trouble unless you need some serious spark.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:12 pm

Depends on how long they are. They will obviously work on any DOHC head. The SOHC heads require a longer reach plug boot. If they stick up far enough, they will work on an SOHC, but if they fit flush with the top, then they will be too short for SOHC apps.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:17 pm

OB wrote:What are they using for an ignition driver? A DIS PCM program would NOT be able to run individual coils without software modification.

They are tieing the 1 and 4, 2 and 3 coils via A to B. Then using the stock PCM to basically fire them at the same time, just like the standard coils.

The only real gain, is no plug wires.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:06 am

occasional demons wrote:
OB wrote:What are they using for an ignition driver? A DIS PCM program would NOT be able to run individual coils without software modification.
They are tieing the 1 and 4, 2 and 3 coils via A to B. Then using the stock PCM to basically fire them at the same time, just like the standard coils.

The only real gain, is no plug wires.

Werd, I know the guys with full stand alones like EMS are really reaping the full benefits...

But wouldn't there be SOME gains from swapping over?

Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs..

ZeroChad · Post by **ZeroChad** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:11 am

I don't think our ignition system really has a problem igniting all of the fuel in the cylinders. Lets say you were pushing 40lbs boost with water injection and god knows what, okay go ahead and do it and notice the diff.

I do like the idea of sequention ignition versus wasted spark though. If I were to do this, and I might eventually, it would be for that reason.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:11 am

Adionik wrote: But wouldn't there be SOME gains from swapping over?

Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs..

The benefit comes with the proper coil driver. When they are fired individually they have more dwell time. Firing them like the conventional wasted spark set up, really gives them no huge advantage over the normal neon coil, other than no wires needed.

Edit: And is that 30% more sparking power? Because I don't see a 30% gain in engine output, unless you are comparing a failing breaker point ign. to COP.

That's like getting 33 more HP out of a normal 100 HP engine with just an ign upgrade. It just doesn't happen that easy.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:59 pm

occasional demons wrote:
Adionik wrote: But wouldn't there be SOME gains from swapping over?

Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs..
The benefit comes with the proper coil driver. When they are fired individually they have more dwell time. Firing them like the conventional wasted spark set up, really gives them no huge advantage over the normal neon coil, other than no wires needed.

Edit: And is that 30% more sparking power? Because I don't see a 30% gain in engine output, unless you are comparing a failing breaker point ign. to COP.

That's like getting 33 more HP out of a normal 100 HP engine with just an ign upgrade. It just doesn't happen that easy.

Well, when I was researching it that's what I came up with.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/copign.htm

Seems to just be a general article on the subject.

Chrysler says its COP ignition system on its LHS and 300M engines delivers 28% more spark energy than earlier ignition systems. This improves combustion and reduces the risk of misfire with lean fuel mixtures (lean mixtures require more voltage to ignite reliably).

COP ignition systems are mostly being used on new engine designs, so if you have not seen one yet you soon will. On most, the plugs and coils are located on top of the cylinder head for easy mounting of the coils. A topside location is best because it keeps the coils away from the heat of the exhaust. This is the type of configuration Chrysler uses on its late model 2.7L, 3.2L and 3.5L engines in the Chrysler Intrepid, LHS and 300M models.

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:34 am

Yea 30% spark energy not more. So Coil on Plug will have a 30% stronger spark than ours.

No spark is lost in the plug wires.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:47 am

Our Caliber has COP

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:57 am

Adionik wrote:
Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs..

Also, COP systems still use conventional plugs. There's no "special" plugs.

Swordfish2Cowboy · Post by **Swordfish2Cowboy** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:05 am

Weird.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:55 am

If you check my progress log I'm pretty sure in there I've got pictures of a cop setup on my magnum. We cannot run these coils on our stock pcm's, It will not fire 2 coils as wired above. I've tried this already and when cylinders 1&4 are fired only cylinder 1 will fire and not cylinder 4.
And the cop setup is nice since you are sending 30-40K volts to one plug VS sharing it with 2 plugs.....

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:05 am

If you think about it, electricity takes the path with the least resistance, so in a wasted spark set up, the cylinder that is not under compression will be the easiest path to take. A plug that is at near atmospheric pressure will arc far easier than one under compression pressure, and/or boost. One has to wonder how much spark energy is lost to the "dead" cylinder's spark plug, that could be focused on the firing cylinder's spark plug.