ready to send my 2000 to the crusher!

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:28 pm

OK so I picked up this 2000 es last year for 400 dollars I drove it from August to December when the trans went out ( when I bought it the rear breaks were locked up so that was the first actual problem) so I bought a new 3 speed for 200$ at the local yard. It got installed just a few months ago after I parked my summer car and found out it slips into second. Well in the last 2 month the tps went bad, cam sensor, and the ecu all went out so instead of a new 300 computer I bought a wreck that I will be parting out soon.
ANYWAY... I was habing a lot of trouble with what I thought was my starter I replaced it with the one from the wrecked car. Now my car is still not starting correctly! I'm so lost I've traced all the wires and checked every connection I was going to take the starters to Autozone for testing but neither one will start my car and a ride is hard to find im 35 miles from friends or family...
I also replaced everything under the fuse box new relays and fuses and it still only starts with lots of tapping and fiddling with the wires.
Sorry for so much info but it helps with diagnosis .
Has anyone else had this problem? the car did sit for 3-4 years untouched in a garage
Here's a pic

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:33 pm

When you say, "the car is not starting correctly", are you saying that the starter won't turn over ??
Or that it turns over, but the engine won't run ??

- Nick

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:39 pm

I can't remember exactly what the connections look like but you should be able to just hook the starter up to a battery and test it. If the starter doesn't engage at all then there's your problem.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:42 pm

Sorry.
For the most part the starter is not even engaging. The relay clicks but I get nothing from the starter but with someoene else turning the key and me tapping the starter and trying to tighten wires I can sometimes get it to start however 95% of the time it wont start at all.
Also once in a while after it starts and gets shut off it has no problem being started again.

I have a feeling that 2 starters with exactly the same problem is very low odds but I can't seem to find any wiring issues.

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:48 pm

Check to make sure there's nothing blocking the starter gear from engaging. I.E. dirt, grime, stones.

LowNSlow · Post by **LowNSlow** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:02 pm

Instead of dropping money into the current old motor.. I'd do a 2.4 swap...

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:14 pm

LowNSlow wrote:Instead of dropping money into the current old motor.. I'd do a 2.4 swap...

Which would cost me roughly 2-4000$ which I dont have, I can fix this problem for less than 200. If I wanted an srt I'd go buy one damn what's with everyone poshing a 2.4 swap they are a dime a dozen anymore just like small block s10s!

Where is my rolled up newspaper someone needs swated on the nose

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:22 pm

Pull the solenoid wire off, and hook a test light to it. Turn the key to start it repeatedly. If the light lights every time, there is prolly nothing wrong with the start circuit. If it doesn't check the neutral safety switch. That seems to be the only thing you didn't mention. If it is clicking with the solenoid wire re attached, then put the test light on the heavy wire going into the starter motor. If that is not lighting consistently, the solenoid is bad. Replace starter. If it is lighting, then either the armature/brushes/field are bad, or it is binding on something.

LowNSlow · Post by **LowNSlow** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:22 pm

gtxtreme19 wrote:
LowNSlow wrote:Instead of dropping money into the current old motor.. I'd do a 2.4 swap...
Which would cost me roughly 2-4000$ which I dont have, I can fix this problem for less than 200. If I wanted an srt I'd go buy one damn what's with everyone poshing a 2.4 swap they are a dime a dozen anymore just like small block s10s!

Where is my rolled up newspaper someone needs swated on the nose

Listen noob,

I didn't say SRT-4 swap anywhere in my post did I?...

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:27 pm

gtxtreme19, the first thing you need around here is to take things with a grain of salt. You will do a lot better here. Yeah, your car is pissing you off, but venting at a little humor isn't going to get it fixed. Your best response to that would have been none.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:34 pm

Your right I never said you did, I mentioned the srt because if im going o own a 2.4 its going to be the Turbo motor from an srt. Right now I just want to get my daily fixed so I can get around with out walking in this terrible Michigan weather, until I can afford to buy something better or build my car.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:14 pm

Thanks Bill for the info I didn't think about checking anything with my multimeter as soon as my wife gets home ill check the solenoid wire and anything that the key needs turned for.
I m worried that it may be binding due to the flexplate being possibly warped. Idk thou im taking my wife to work tomorrow and having my starters both tested and picking up a few speakers to start my stereo build at the local kicker dealer right next door to Autozone

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:58 pm

Nice... just caught the new nOOb title in my avatar

NeonOn19s · Post by **NeonOn19s** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:20 pm

it will change once you have a higher post count.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:23 pm

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:12 pm

I finally found the culprit but didn't want to trace the wire back tonight ripping out the zip ties and wire loom its simply too cold and my ride for work showed up, ill update tomorrow

blue_streak95 · Post by **blue_streak95** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:59 pm

my solution to my 2000 neon was...i burnt it....seriously i got pissed off n drove it into a feild n burned it......greatly satisfying....mmmm

esfan · Post by **esfan** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:36 am

^lol this is so SICK...

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:10 am

blue_streak95 wrote: n drove it into a feild

Yours ran... I would have to trailer this pos to the field
That might make it much more satisfying tho

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:39 pm

OK so I replaced the wire leaving only the plug end and the ecu terminal and nothing. I realize it could be lose in the computer port but have no clue how to change it. The end in the plug was a little loose but appears to be getting a good connection to the starter. Any ideas?
BTW both starters tested good at the local Autozone.

Panhead · Post by **Panhead** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:29 pm

Sounds like there is a bad ground.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:21 pm

Forgot that part.

leaving only the plug end and the ecu terminal

Hopefully you did not cut any wires at the PCM, since it is not directly in the battery to solenoid circuit.

occasional demons wrote:

occasional demons wrote:
Check for power at pin #25 at the starter relay socket also.
25 is the source switched to 26, which as the above diagram shows goes to the starter soleniod.
Now you could remove the relay and jumper the two and see if the starter cranks. (Be sure it is in park, or out of gear!) If there is power at the solenoid connector, and the battery to starter motor lug, then the starter is not grounded somehow, or toast.

From: viewtopic.php?t=43966

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:25 pm

occasional demons wrote:

Forgot that part.

leaving only the plug end and the ecu terminal
Hopefully you did not cut any wires at the PCM, since it is not directly in the battery to solenoid circuit.

Thanks a ton for those wire diagrams I been searching this and neons.org for 2 days

As far as cutting anything at the PCM no I simply replaced a section of wire I thought could be causing the problem (I was wrong!)
I picked up a new neutral safety switch (3$ brand new a friend had it sitting In his tool box from a neon he sold)

I'm going to jump that starter relay tomorrow and hope something happens I hate wiring....

While im on the subject anyone know a good tuck specialist in or near Michigan/ Ohio?

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:55 pm

OK starter relay is clicking I removed it and checked with 25 and 26 pins jumped and still nothing.

Replaced neutral safety switch.

Swaped power wire from battery with 8GA monster wire from left over stereo install...

I'm under the assumption at this point that it must be the fuseable link or bad ground( both being the blackwith white stripe correct?)

To fix this can I use an inline fuse like I would on my stereo?

A "mechanic" replaced my alternator at the same time as my tranny but used a 1 gn alt and spliced in a new plug to make it work ( as well as disconnecting my rear breaks and calling them fixed they now leak like a siv and he said he fixed them yay drums

he got fired)

Just trying to cover all the bases here im no electrician or mechanic or this wouldn't be so troublesome for me.
Thanks in advance
Mike

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:57 pm

Okay, so we know the starter / relay is getting current.
That is good.

Since no one else has asked (as far as I can tell).... how is the battery ??
Is it fully charged ??

If it is fully charged, how do the battery terminals look ?? Are they both clean and also tight ??

The reason that I am mentioning this, is because I have had a similar problem on my 2000....I stopped for gas, and then the car wouldn't start again. In my case, the terminals were clean, but they were loose. ( I had replaced the battery a few days before).

If the problem is not at the battery, you may want to seriously consider repairing / Replacing your starter wiring.
I am pretty sure someone did a write-up here on 2gn, on how to upgrade the starter wiring and grounds..... I just can't seem to find it right now.....

- Nick

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:23 pm

OK literally just came inside and caught your post. I have tried 2 batteries 1: old optima red top with 3 days on trickle charge and it started my brothers 99 mustang just moments ago, no dice on the neon
2: a Walmart battery bought the day the car died the first time and also put on trickle charge just to be safe.

While I was outside I tested all 3 wires for the starter as well as checked the fusible link which is fine. Wires tested as follows
Red power: 12.5v off 12.5 with key in start ( without the generator turning I wasn't expecting anything different.
BK/gy "fusible link" wire: this was roughl .02v constantly.
Brown wire: this wire had 0 volts off and 0 when I made my wife crank the car
This wire has to be the problem but I have only traced it as far back as where the wire loom branched off near the ecu.
As I thought it went into the computer
I'm lost and getting it to the dealership will be a chore in itself and I really dont have the money.
Wish I had an Mtx I would simply push start it

neonpla · Post by **neonpla** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:33 pm

you bought a 400$ neon and didn't expect any problems?

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:45 pm

neonpla wrote:you bought a 400$ neon and didn't expect any problems?

Well yes and no, I knew the carcneeded rear breaks and that the tranny slipped a little. I wasn't expecting a ase certified mechanic to cobble the rear drums and the alternator.
When I bought it the car had sat after running very good( I helped park it ) for 3 years so I knew gas,breaks,etc..etc would be rough I didn't think it would be this bad

Edit: the neon was actually free I simply owed the person 400 so I paid them before I took the car

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:09 pm

gtxtreme19 wrote:OK literally just came inside and caught your post. I have tried 2 batteries 1: old optima red top with 3 days on trickle charge and it started my brothers 99 mustang just moments ago, no dice on the neon
2: a Walmart battery bought the day the car died the first time and also put on trickle charge just to be safe.

While I was outside I tested all 3 wires for the starter as well as checked the fusible link which is fine. Wires tested as follows
Red power: 12.5v off 12.5 with key in start ( without the generator turning I wasn't expecting anything different.
BK/gy "fusible link" wire: this was roughl .02v constantly.
Brown wire: this wire had 0 volts off and 0 when I made my wife crank the car
This wire has to be the problem but I have only traced it as far back as where the wire loom branched off near the ecu.

So, it looks like we've isolated the problem, to the brown wire.
I do not know / remember off hand what the wire is for.... Is that the one that feeds the starter relay ?? Or the solenoid ??
I don't *think* it goes to the PCM..... doesn't that get its power from the PDC ?? (Power Distribution Center)

- Nick

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:35 pm

OK so update:

The brown wire ran to this

coupler in front of the Ecu.
I decided to jump around it and see if there wasn't a bad connection as it was wrapped extremely well with 90mph tape.

I spliced directly into the wire about 4 inches from the PDC. And ran the wire direct to the starter and tadaa! The starter engaged! Now the wires were extremely loose so it didn't fully crank but it worked!
I didn't tighten them because it is dark already and would take a while to put it all back together. Tomorrow I will post any definite changes in the am[/img]