wrinkle in radiator support

Ntyvirus1 · Post by **Ntyvirus1** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:04 pm

figured i should probably fix this but i don't know how. a while ago i got into a fender bender and as a result there's a slight "wrinkle" in the radiator support. Everything is solidly mounted but since it's not perfectly straight i cant mount my radiator shroud and the screws to mount the bumper go in a bit crooked. Any way i could fix this myself or am i gunna need to take it somewhere?

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:12 pm

Take it somewhere.

LilSparkPlug · Post by **LilSparkPlug** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:12 pm

You can't measure a frame at your house, take it somewhere to be safe. Granted it's a piece that you can buy separately and replace yourself but I would still want the peace of mind.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:01 pm

LilSparkPlug wrote:You can't measure a frame at your house, take it somewhere to be safe. Granted it's a piece that you can buy separately and replace yourself but I would still want the peace of mind.

The radiator support is actually about 8 or 9 pieces, if you want oem parts. I think some aftermarket places sell an assy tho. Either way, you would need a spot weld cutter, and a welder to replace it. You definitely want the frame checked for straightness before just putting a new one on.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:09 am

For now you can take the above measurements to see how tweaked your frame may be. The upper crossmember is not something you can just straighten out. If its "wrinkled" it needs to be replaced since the sheetmetal is stretched out beyond repair...

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:43 am

LilSparkPlug wrote:You can't measure a frame at your house

You most definately can.

If it's just the rad support and there's no major frame damage between that picture and a tape measure you will be able to fix this on your own in your own garage. You can change out the whole rad support if you have the tools to do it. Depending how bad this "wrinkle" is you could get away with just a straightening, although if it's pretty bad you'll need to change it out. But that picture is key, right click and save

You will more than likely not need an alignment rack at all.

This is really going to come down to how comfortable you are with doing the work yourself as it's more than doable and can be done well at home.

1972demon · Post by **1972demon** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:33 am

i changed out my rad support at home i just measured off my other car and set it up and spot welded it.

the place i bought the rad support from you could either get the top tie bar or the whole rad support,

i would get factory parts as the aftermarkets were very thin and the lower brace is bent already.

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:56 am

LilSparkPlug wrote:You can't measure a frame at your house, take it somewhere to be safe. Granted it's a piece that you can buy separately and replace yourself but I would still want the peace of mind.

I can. Thank you Mr. Kansas frame machine lol.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 pm

I think LSP meant most ppl don't have a frame machine to check it at home. That drawing is nice, but getting an measurement is only as good as your helper, and what is in the path of the tape measure.

The real question is, where is it bent? Top tie bar, bottom bar?

And like I said, buying oem would be a major pain to assemble a complete unit. I would only buy the part that is bent.

4783295AD CROSSMEMBER, Front Side Rail (lower tie bar)
4783482 BRACE, Radiator Crossmember, Right
4783483 BRACE, Radiator Crossmember, Left
4783350AE PANEL, Radiator Closure, Lower, Right, Right
4783351AE PANEL, Radiator Closure, Lower, Left, Left
4783348AF PANEL, Radiator Closure, Upper, Right, Right
4783349AF PANEL, Radiator Closure, Upper, Left, Left
4783465 SUPPORT, Radiator Closure Panel
4783 466AG CROSSMEMBER, Radiator Closure Panel (upper tie bar)

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:36 pm

Perhaps a picture of said damage would help us give you completely accurate information...

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:24 pm

occasional demons wrote:I think LSP meant most ppl don't have a frame machine to check it at home. That drawing is nice, but getting an measurement is only as good as your helper, and what is in the path of the tape measure.

You don't need a fram rack for this, AT ALL. Are frame racks nice? YES. Do they speed up the repairs and make it easier, YES? Are they necessary? No. Do they improve the accuracy of the measure? No.

All you need is flat level surface to work on and you're golden, provided you know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're measuring frame rack or not it will get messed up. FWIW the guys at the shop using the frame rack reference the exact same diagram from above, I believe that's straight out of the PL body manual.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:36 pm

Since he asked if he could straighten it himself, I'm guessing he doesn't have much experience in doing this... best to leave it to professionals.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:47 pm

fixitmattman wrote:You don't need a fram rack for this, AT ALL. Are frame racks nice? YES. Do they speed up the repairs and make it easier, YES? Are they necessary? No. Do they improve the accuracy of the measure? No.

I can't argee with you on this one. First, finding a true flat surface can be tough for some folks. If you have a good garage with a known level floor, you should be fine. But how do you know the car is level even then? Compensating for supension and any unibody twist that may be present without having the body of the car suported and secured by a frame machine is not going to give you an acurate measurement.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that if you want the car to be fixed as well as possible a frame machine should be used. Knowlege is the key here just as you said. If this is the OP's first attempt at this then it pays to know the pros and cons of both methods.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:49 pm

Oh, and since I'm a pseudo spelling Nazi... it's wrack, not rack.

1972demon · Post by **1972demon** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:54 pm

TheRandom1 wrote:Oh, and since I'm a pseudo spelling Nazi... it's wrack, not rack.

really its frame wrack?

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:55 pm

I was being a smartass since we have so much other misinformation going on in this thread.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:55 pm

I even tried to look it up out of curiosity and didn't find anything that related.

...ass...

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:01 pm

You retard...

1972demon · Post by **1972demon** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:02 pm

alright good, im not going nuts
if you have to change the rad support this is how far you have to pull the car apart, if your not comfortable with that leave it to the professionals

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:09 pm

Don't feel bad, Dante got me with his "Titanium Member" status.

Titanium Bastid.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:46 pm

LilSparkPlug · Post by **LilSparkPlug** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:30 pm

Danteneon wrote:
fixitmattman wrote:You don't need a fram rack for this, AT ALL. Are frame racks nice? YES. Do they speed up the repairs and make it easier, YES? Are they necessary? No. Do they improve the accuracy of the measure? No.
I can't argee with you on this one. First, finding a true flat surface can be tough for some folks. If you have a good garage with a known level floor, you should be fine. But how do you know the car is level even then? Compensating for supension and any unibody twist that may be present without having the body of the car suported and secured by a frame machine is not going to give you an acurate measurement.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that if you want the car to be fixed as well as possible a frame machine should be used. Knowlege is the key here just as you said. If this is the OP's first attempt at this then it pays to know the pros and cons of both methods.

Exactly why I said don't do it without a frame machine. And yes the latest laser frame machines can measure FAR more accurately than you and your tape measure any day of the week....

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:00 pm

LilSparkPlug wrote:
Exactly why I said don't do it without a frame machine. And yes the latest laser frame machines can measure FAR more accurately than you and your tape measure any day of the week....

x2. The one I have is just by measure tape. But that one at the shop my dad works at, dam. You just click a button in the location and then click again in the other location and it tells you how much it's out, how far to go, which way to get. And it is very precise.

Ntyvirus1 · Post by **Ntyvirus1** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:25 pm

TheRandom1 wrote:Perhaps a picture of said damage would help us give you completely accurate information...

ill snag a pic 2maro

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:52 pm

LilSparkPlug wrote:And yes the latest laser frame machines can measure FAR more accurately than you and your tape measure any day of the week....

Does it? People put too much faith in technology...

The laser is faster, but not always better. Again, it goes back to the quality of the operator.

LilSparkPlug · Post by **LilSparkPlug** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:31 pm

Yes...it does. Have you ever used one? If not I suggest you try it out. You'd put the tape measure away forever. It's 99% failproof/idiot proof. There's no guesswork involved.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:50 pm

occasional demons wrote:I think LSP meant most ppl don't have a frame machine to check it at home. That drawing is nice, but getting an measurement is only as good as your helper, and what is in the path of the tape measure.

The real question is, where is it bent? Top tie bar, bottom bar?

And like I said, buying oem would be a major pain to assemble a complete unit. I would only buy the part that is bent.

4783295AD CROSSMEMBER, Front Side Rail (lower tie bar)
4783482 BRACE, Radiator Crossmember, Right
4783483 BRACE, Radiator Crossmember, Left
4783350AE PANEL, Radiator Closure, Lower, Right, Right
4783351AE PANEL, Radiator Closure, Lower, Left, Left
4783348AF PANEL, Radiator Closure, Upper, Right, Right
4783349AF PANEL, Radiator Closure, Upper, Left, Left
4783465 SUPPORT, Radiator Closure Panel
4783 466AG CROSSMEMBER, Radiator Closure Panel (upper tie bar)

You definately got to much time on your hands, lol.....

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:26 pm

Nah, I just had that handy from when I was repairing my totalled car....

Ntyvirus1 · Post by **Ntyvirus1** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:02 am

in the picture of 72demon's car, the "wrinkle" is in the very top bar where the radiator brackets attach to. (cant find my camera to take pics of my car at the moment)

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 am

No camera phone?