Mag head, Crane 14 installed and I feel SLOWER!

Frizbe · Post by **Frizbe** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:41 am

BlackRoseRacing wrote:^^^

Anywho, when you start modding like you posted, and run a stock ATX..your not going to help matters better. If you talk to any CAM person,crane etc...
One of the main questions there going to ask you is do you have an ATX or a MTX. The cams powerband is designed differently for both. You don't want to stick a high lift, high duration cam into a car with a stock ATX. Ask any muscle car guy out there about building performance V-8's w/ an automatic. There going to say you need a higher stall converter. Thats the reason they make them.
Also the other reason the converter is so expensive is lack of demand! Not everyone is building a Hi-Po ATX neon. I'd recomend atleast doing a shift kit w/ an aux trani cooler before going any farther. The shift kit can be a do it yourself for about $2.00 plus fluid and filter. The aux cooler can range from getting one free upto $100 30,000btu aftermarket.
Once those mods are done, then I would think about going the turbo route since you will now have faster, crisper shifts with little lag between 1-2 and almost no lag from 2-3. Full boost all the way to the top!
Also, get rid of the #14, stick with the #12 or a magnum cam since your going to need some of the bottom end to spool the turbo. And if you know anything about turbo's and cam's you will realize that bigger is not always better.....
oops, time to go to work.....C-YA

^^
what I was trying to say.

nodestiny · Post by **nodestiny** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:19 am

LCPLPunk wrote:well..i'm not gonna go buy a Crane 12 AND have it put in since i just had the Crane 14 put in.

AND..i've already got the tranny cooler and RMVB...

Its a pain, but im sure you wouldnt spend much more after selling the 14. As Rose said it, sticking with that big cam where your RPM limited and want low end for the turbo to spool without big lag... the #12 will make the bigger differance, especialy when its time for some boost!

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:36 am

Well, my problem isn't finding a 12 and paying for it..my problem is that i don't have the time to take out the Crane 14 and put the new one in myself..

So i guess i'm stuck with the 14, but hey, we'll see how it goes.

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:35 am

DO YOU HAVE A CAM G3AR DO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVVVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARV

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:36 am

yep..all Neons have cam gears..

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:26 pm

rice eater, what was the point of that?

tamadrumr88 · Post by **tamadrumr88** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:25 pm

i think he means an adjustable cam gear, not the stock one

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:29 pm

i know he did..but since he couldn't phrase it into a logical question i gave him a crappy answer.

Yes i do have an adjustable cam gear.

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:45 am

^^^yeah to show me...someone tries to help you and you give them shit answers...i should give you a shit answer and tell you you're screwed, or i can tell you to adjust it, because you can lower your powerband and make more use of it. now you can go figure which way to adjust to achieve that

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:15 am

even if you advance the 14 a 12 still would be better

Or probably the compcam 400.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:18 am

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:51 am

Riceeater, i'm confused...

How does

"DO YOU HAVE A CAM G3AR DO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVVVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARVDO YOU HAVE A CAM G3ARV"

really accomplish anything? Wouldn't "Do you have a cam gear?" be more logical?

nodestiny · Post by **nodestiny** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:06 pm

NO IT WOULDNT NO IT WOULDNT NO IT WOULDNT

hehehe.

WHO CARES? He has a cam gear, therfore: End that.

Baal · Post by **Baal** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:32 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:

for a turbo -.-

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:16 pm

I'll trade you my magnum cam for your #14

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:27 pm

come down here and swap 'em out and u got a deal!

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:04 am

nodestiny wrote:NO IT WOULDNT NO IT WOULDNT NO IT WOULDNT

hehehe.

WHO CARES? He has a cam gear, therfore: End that.

who cares? obviously he does...before you swap the thing out, why wouldnt you try to adjust your settings first? there is a lot of power to be gained by adjusting the valve timing... at the very least you can play with exhaust scavenging and get teh most power a bit earlier, because yes adjusting the cam timing does move your powerband around, since you are physically changing when the valves open and close.

ithis is just like bolting on a turbo, being SUPER lean because some guy posted he was running his turbo with stock injectors so you decide to do it too, and instead of adjusting your fuel you're looking for a smaller turbo

makes NO sense to me

Frizbe · Post by **Frizbe** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:38 am

Wait, so getting the right parts for a future turbo doesn't make sence to you? Wow bro....

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:54 am

linkinevo wrote:Wait, so getting the right parts for a future turbo doesn't make sence to you? Wow bro....

wow bro, you have the grasp level of a 12 yo

you have NO idea what i just said

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:35 pm

errr....i'm confused now..

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:46 pm

^^ all i'm saying is that if you have an adjustable cam gear, give yourself an hour one evening and play around with the settings on it...all you have to do is losen the tiny bolts a bit and it'll spin freely so you can adjust it. try to retard the timing a little bit for more low end or advance for more top end (which you dont seem to need

), but honestly just play with it and see what the buttometer tells ya. no need ripping apart your job to swap out the cam when you can adjust your settings a bit and maybe be happier. the #14 is a great cam otherwise and believe me you will love it once you get some headers. the noise from the lumpy cams is unmistakeable, and no tricksy exhaust will get you that.

for those that didnt get the turbo reference i honestly cant see why... all i said was that if you have the chance, the logical thing would be to tune your fuel for the turbo that you have, not go out and buy a diff turbo hoping your stock fuel delivery will work

Frizbe · Post by **Frizbe** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:27 am

rice_eater wrote:this is just like bolting on a turbo, being SUPER lean because some guy posted he was running his turbo with stock injectors so you decide to do it too, and instead of adjusting your fuel you're looking for a smaller turbo makes NO sense to me

So if the smaller turbo works better for you, even though you can adjust the larger one you bought, you'd still stick with the bigger ledd useful one? Who's the 12 year old?

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:43 am

linkinevo wrote:
rice_eater wrote:this is just like bolting on a turbo, being SUPER lean because some guy posted he was running his turbo with stock injectors so you decide to do it too, and instead of adjusting your fuel you're looking for a smaller turbo makes NO sense to me
So if the smaller turbo works better for you, even though you can adjust the larger one you bought, you'd still stick with the bigger ledd useful one? Who's the 12 year old?

how do yoi know it'll be less usefull??? has he tried it yet to know for sure? you're damn right i'd try to tune my fuel to make the bigger turbo work. maybe i love my tec3 too much, being able to adjust and monitor all engine functions tickles my balls just right, so i like to fiddle with the settings to try and squeeze the most power. you're only as fast as the effort you put in your car. when everyone uses similar parts, its little tweaks that put you ahead not just raw power

8082ndgen · Post by **8082ndgen** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:20 am

rice_eater wrote:
linkinevo wrote:
rice_eater wrote:this is just like bolting on a turbo, being SUPER lean because some guy posted he was running his turbo with stock injectors so you decide to do it too, and instead of adjusting your fuel you're looking for a smaller turbo makes NO sense to me
So if the smaller turbo works better for you, even though you can adjust the larger one you bought, you'd still stick with the bigger ledd useful one? Who's the 12 year old?
how do yoi know it'll be less usefull??? has he tried it yet to know for sure? you're damn right i'd try to tune my fuel to make the bigger turbo work. maybe i love my tec3 too much, being able to adjust and monitor all engine functions tickles my balls just right, so i like to fiddle with the settings to try and squeeze the most power. you're only as fast as the effort you put in your car. when everyone uses similar parts, its little tweaks that put you ahead not just raw power

All this is coming from the man who has an SRT-4........

tamadrumr88 · Post by **tamadrumr88** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:50 am

rice_eater wrote:try to retard the timing a little bit for more low end or advance for more top end (which you dont seem to need)

you have that backwards - advancing it sacrifices top-end for better mid-range and low-end. retarding it sacrifices ALOT of low-end and mid-range for barely anything up top

i know a dyno was floating around here that proved our neon engines respond to cam gear adjustments the same way the pushrod v8's do (since they are only a single cam as well).... by retarding the cam youd lose say 5lb-ft tq across the board for only 2hp on the top end. whereas if you advance the cam you may only lose 2hp on the top-end but youll gain 5lb-ft tq. keep in mind this is just for comparison purposes only, youll have to dyno it to find the best cam... which brings me to another topic - many times the stock cam is more than sufficient when turbocharging. normally the non-magnums will run out of steam about 5500-5800rpm. but when turbocharged, youre getting another usable ~1000rpm as the turbo is still forcing air into the engine without regard to the cam lift/duration that affects NA cars as much. for example: a 1998 integra gsr had a jackson racing supercharger installed among many other performance parts and a company wanted to test which aftermarket cam made the most power with it. twenty-some cams later they found out that the best cam was in fact the stock gsr cams... all of the aftermarket cams lost power over stock

- they may be why you car feels the way it does

grindpunk16 · Post by **grindpunk16** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:24 pm

i do agree with the stall, tranny cooler, and shift kit but i do not agree with the cam situation. hell a geo metro could spool the srt turbo up almost instantly. my car with an 8.8 comp spools the turbo up instantly. you first off need to get on a dyno before listening to everyone tell you what to do. dont be only as good as someone tells you what you are/what to do. Tune the car first before listening to anyone and i mean that. if it was true about the 14 cam roach wouldnt be making as much power as he was with it. laim is having no problem with the cam. for that cam you have to tune it. yes it requires money but you will see gains from it. dont listen to people just cuz they think they are right. hell i could be wrong for all i care i dont. in all actuallity that cam might be helping you more than hurting you.

1. srt turbo spools uber fast + you on 9.8:1 comp
2. timing is more radical on a na car than on a turbo car. turbo cars pull timing at boost spike and add timing thru power band to keep power and torque elevated na comps dont.
3 that leads to detination. the cam you are boosting but you are probally loosing some of the boost yes bad thing but could be a good thing if you look at it.

honostly i would tune the cam, get to a dyno quick and tune the car. my car only saw 25 miles on the turbo setup (before i built the built the block) and i was on a dyno tuning.

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:51 pm

ya, i tuned the car two months ago..

been boosting ever since on 5psi. Once i get my new WGA in i'll hopefully be able to hold 8psi.

grindpunk16 · Post by **grindpunk16** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:34 pm

what exactly did you tune????

LCPLPunk · Post by **LCPLPunk** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:27 pm

the usual, air/fuel.

grindpunk16 · Post by **grindpunk16** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:10 pm

rofl. you have a adjustable timing gear and 14 cam and didnt even adjust it???? wow no offense get back to the dyno and tune that cam.