another mag head question

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:02 pm

So after the giddy like a schoolgirl stage wore off from buying an entire mag motor I realized it was from an 04 model and I wouldn't be able to use it thanks to some info from BRR .

So what's it going to take for me to be able to do a head swap on my poor little 00? Is it possible with this head? Also could I use the cometic (spelling) head gasket because im wanting to go Turbo soon and that would help on stock size internals correct?

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:50 pm

occasional demons wrote:Swap the whole engine. (As long as your car is an '03-up) Magnum should have 9.8:1 C.R.

You would need the entire engine/body/dash harnesses, if your car is older. It would be the same trouble as an SRT swap. If it is an '02-older, then just do the head/IM, and the other goodies down the road.

As for a PCM, if it is NGC, or SKIM it would need the SKIM/VIN reflashed, etc. Money that would be better towards MS.

Edit: From searching your post, you have an "00. Sell the short block to get your $ back. I'm sure there are a few members that would buy an NGC 9.8:1 bottom end for $200.

From your other thread.

Head swap will be no different than a normal head change.

A thicker HG may help some in reducing C.R., but you will need a cam gear to correct for the added height, and it could have belt tension issues, as the timing belt will be a bit short, depending on how much you shim the head. Like I said sell the short block. Use the $ to put correct pistons in your current block. You will be much farther ahead. No cam gear/shims conservative tune needed. Money saved. Less headaches.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:11 am

Thanks I must have read it wrong in the other thread and I assumed that since I couldn't do the complete motor swap that the head might not work either.

Correct pistons? I'm assuming you mean the 20 overs available from modern?

Also the connectors from the mag head are the same as on my car already? I dont want to delve into this and have my car out of commission for a while or have to put my story k head back on until I can find the propped equipment.

Sorry for 20 questions just trying to cover all the bases before I do the head swap

stdlystdmufn · Post by **stdlystdmufn** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:39 am

i think he means getting the low comp pistons instead of getting the cometic head gasket

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:30 am

Yeah that was my assumption ill be disassembling the mag motor today. Block and engine harness will be in my for sale thread today

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:12 am

If you're going MS, it doesn't much matter if it's NGC or SBEC. MS can control either. You might want to wait before cracking it open.

You probably want to go MS with boost anyway. PM me before you do anything.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:48 am

There is that, but the pickle would be if he ever sold the car, or had to get it E checked.

If he sold the car, he would be responsible to make it meet emissions.
That is federal law. The cost would be far beyond what it sold for.

The only way around it would be to state on the title that the car is for parts only, and getting it road worthy is the buyer's responsibility. Then pray the BMV keeps the cancelled title on file for a long time.

But there goes any hope of getting any kind of $ for it.

Edit: And I was hoping he could measure the installed piston height, and take pics to verify the NGC Magnum C.R.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:40 am

Me take pictures!? I'm a picture whore tell me what you want to see my friend!

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:10 pm

The thing is this: There is really no real info confirming that the NGC Magnum engines are 9.8:1 C.R. The FSM does not give any specs separately like the '01/'02 FSMs do for the Magnum 2.0

For whatever reason, DCX never put anything in print. At least anything that is easily obtained.

AFAIK no one has posted pics comparing the two side by side, or measured the distance from the cylinder deck to the top of the piston.

Tho even if it was the same, a dish in the piston would make a difference. In theory, the standard '02 older piston should look/be the same height as the '03/'04 Magnum pistons if they are the same C.R.

The heads are the same as far as combustion chambers, so the only thing that would change would be the piston. We know the PN's are different, but the Magnum pistons are supposed to be coated, and the rods a better material. So that could be the PN difference.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:33 pm

Well I dont have pics to compare the two but I will take a ton of pics of the magnum motor. I do have a separate engine but I'd rather not tear it down I want to sell it. I've nearly got the head and other components off the block let me see what I can do for pics and measurements

stdlystdmufn · Post by **stdlystdmufn** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:48 pm

but the NGC pistons are dished (giving them low comp), so if the pistons from the mag motor aren't dished then they should be the 9.8:1.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:08 pm

Chrysler has put information in print. Unfortunately most of the good (2gen) information was hosted on the old Daimler-Chrysler website and is no longer available (at least in my attempts to find it).

03+ standard pistons did have a dish to them while the 2000-2002 did not. But 1gn SOHC pistoins had a dish to them too (at least early 1gns did).

And, not only did the 03+ standard pistons change, but the cylinder head casting number and part number changed for the standard head in 2003 too.

\/ Here's a 1995 piston I removed from a standard SOHC motor. (Note that the “valve reliefs” were manufactured by a broken timing belt

)

\/ Here's a 2001 statndard piston (right) I removed from a standard SOHC motor. (As well as a Wiseco low-compression piston on the left.) The 01-02 Magnum pistons have the same flat top.

\/ Here's a 2005 standard piston I removed from a standard SOHC motor (note the skirt coating). I've never taken apart an 03-04 Magnum, so I don't know how the tops compare.

It wouldn't be too easy to determine what was changed without very good measurements.

DoubtedNeon · Post by **DoubtedNeon** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:25 pm

probably domed, with reliefs. idk tho

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:31 pm

Head badge

Piston top

DoubtedNeon · Post by **DoubtedNeon** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:41 pm

piston top pic does not show

EDIT: yes it does.