tranny swap problem

strykr · Post by **strykr** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:29 pm

So i changed my car from atx to mtx, but left the atx ecu in and I can't get the car started and trying to bump start it doesn't work either.

I changed the park/neutral safety switch over, I have that and the speed sensor from the atx connected the other (2 prong) connector which I forget what it does is being tied out of the way right now..

The clutch pedal switch isn't hooked up..

Hopefully you guys may know what is wrong and can tell me!!

Because the only other thing I can think of is that my tranny may be screwed, or there's something else wrong...

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:42 pm

If you haven't already, try pushing in the detent ball on the N/S switch. IDK if it is closed with the ball in, or in the resting position.

The VSS should not keep it from starting/cranking.

This was a 41te ATX correct? You may need to get an MTX PCM to get everything to work properly. I'm not too sure what ppl have done to get the VSS to function properly. The 41te uses the parking sprag to get the speed signal, and the TCM decodes it for a speedometer reading. I think with an MTX pcm installed the VSS wires need extended to reach the MTX sender. An '01/'02 complete engine bay harness/PCM would be the best way for trouble free operation.

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:06 am

an atx pcm will run an mtx neon just fine. Albeit with the CEL on, but thats obvious. I would get that neutral saftey switch hooked up first and go from there.

strykr · Post by **strykr** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:08 am

Neutral safety is what? The clutch pedal switch?

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:17 pm

occasional demons wrote:If you haven't already, try pushing in the detent ball on the N/S switch. IDK if it is closed with the ball in, or in the resting position.

The VSS should not keep it from starting/cranking.

This was a 41te ATX correct? You may need to get an MTX PCM to get everything to work properly. I'm not too sure what ppl have done to get the VSS to function properly. The 41te uses the parking sprag to get the speed signal, and the TCM decodes it for a speedometer reading. I think with an MTX pcm installed the VSS wires need extended to reach the MTX sender. An '01/'02 complete engine bay harness/PCM would be the best way for trouble free operation.

Says in his sig it's a 3 speed. Neutral safety switch doesn't need to be hooked up to start.

You need to figure out how to make the ECU think it's in neutral again.

strykr · Post by **strykr** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:22 pm

Alright so today I went and got myself an MTX ecu and hooked up the clutch pedal switch, it still won't turn.. I'm thinkin its the starter because it won't even make a tickin sound like its trying to rotate the flywheel... N I also found the starter fuse popped..

So the starters probably shot..

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:54 pm

invujerry wrote:Says in his sig it's a 3 speed.

Duh, major brain fart on my end.
But wouldn't the N/S switch be one way to tell the PCM it is in park, or neutral?

strykr wrote: N I also found the starter fuse popped..

So the starters probably shot..

If anything it is the fusible link to the alternator. There is no fuse to the starter. Just the relay. Fuse 9 in the PDC. This would also kill the ign switch.

viewtopic.php?t=43966&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Post 12 and 25 will tell you if the starter is good or bad.

The N/S switch would have been the one that treaded into the ATX, that would let the starter crank in "P" or "N", and prolly lit up the reverse lights.

With the MTX pcm, the clutch switches will need to be connected. There is one that closes when the clutch is at top, and one at bottom. I'm not sure you will need the top one, unless you have/want cruise control.

Also, what year MTX PCM, and did it have SKIM? You may also need to trace the clutch switch wire(s) to verify they are connected to the PCM. Being an ATX harness, all the wiring may not be there.

I would put the ATX one back in, and try to get it running, then if you want the higher rev limit, work on the MTX PCM. If it had SKIM, it will take a trip to the dealer to make it work, plus the needed key, receiver, etc. If that is the case, then it would be best to stick with the ATX pcm. If it is other than '01/'02 pcm, ('00) there are some pin out differences. I am going to assume it is not a newer one, as it would not have plugged in.

stdlystdmufn · Post by **stdlystdmufn** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:56 pm

try replacing the fuse first.

strykr · Post by **strykr** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:03 pm

It is a 01 or 02 and im pretty sure it has skim.. the key for the car wasnt there (got pcm from wreckers) and shouldnt the starter make a struggling sound from it trying to crank the engine tho?

Because it worked the first time we tried to start the car, after that tho nothing happened which is when i decided to check the fuses and maybe thought the starter might be dead..

How much would it cost at the dealership for a flash?

stdlystdmufn · Post by **stdlystdmufn** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:03 am

well when the starter fuse blows then the starter doesn't make any sound as a matter of act when my starter fuse went the gauges didn't even work when i turned the key to the on position, i don't even think the radio worked. and a starter is 160 from autozone and advance

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:14 am

strykr wrote:It is a 01 or 02 and im pretty sure it has skim.. the key for the car wasnt there (got pcm from wreckers) and shouldnt the starter make a struggling sound from it trying to crank the engine tho?

Because it worked the first time we tried to start the car, after that tho nothing happened which is when i decided to check the fuses and maybe thought the starter might be dead..

How much would it cost at the dealership for a flash?

With SKIM, it will lock down the starter.

But if it wasn't cranking with the original PCM, I'm not sure that is the problem yet. PM Danteneon with the MTX VIN he may be able to tell you if it has SKIM. VIN should be on the PCM label.

Edit: Have you tried what I linked?

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:19 am

skim doesnt stop the starter from working. it will start and run for a few seconds then shut down via the asd relay.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:30 am

After a few tries it will/should lock down the starter. There have been more than a few starers needlessly replaced due to SKIM.

Edit: See diagram in above link. PCM controls ground path to starter relay.

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:37 am

yes after 3 tries it will not crank again.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:02 am

Causticneon I don't think used a neutral safety switch when he did the mtx swap in his 03. All the NSS does is complete a ground loop. If you don't have the switch in place, the loop is already made, negating the need for it.

Get the PCM flashed and I'm sure the car will fire up.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:31 pm

invujerry wrote:

Get the PCM flashed and I'm sure the car will fire up.

Only if his car is SKIM equipped.*

If the MTX PCM is/was not SKIM equipped, and his car is, The MTX is now looking for SKIM. IF neither are SKIM, then there is no flashing required, unless you are super anal about the VIN matching.

*Unless you get damn lucky, a SKIM pcm is going to take a bit of work to get it to function in a non skim car. I am prolly one of the few, that somehow have got a SKIM pcm to plug and play in my non SKIM car.

strykr · Post by **strykr** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:41 pm

What u do to the car? B/c mine has skim and I'm not 100% on the ecu

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:44 pm

If your car has skim, and you plugged a non-skim ECU into it, it's now looking for a matching vin, which it does not have.