Front Control Arm Bushing Replacement?

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:04 pm

I desperately need to replace my control arm bushings and ball joints. I have brand new control arm assemblies (with bushings and ball joints already installed). I would like to replace the bushings with poly ones.

I read through Jenni's How-To: viewtopic.php?t=17192

How do you guys get the old bushings out using a bench vise? Specifically, the vertical one. Jenni's pic only shows the removed bushing sitting on the control arm.

Thanks for any help.

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:32 pm

I believe you need a machine press. I just took the arms off and had a shop press the old ones out and the new ones in.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:04 pm

I left the vertical bushing in, and burned the rubber out while it was in the control arm. Why press the sleeve out, only to press it back in? Maybe that's why I found the ES bushings not a big deal to install.

I think the one side the rubber was already separated from the sleeve, I only had to burn it off the center tube. I also used the black SRT bushings instead of the red SE/SXT type. I honestly don't know what the difference is between the SRT and standard set. The LCA's are 100% the same except for the reinforcement in the sway bar area.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:14 pm

The colors of the poly only make a difference on the inserts AFAIK. Other than that, it's just a color thing?

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:14 pm

The ES sets are different part numbers/prices for SRT/SXT. That is more of what I was getting at.

5-3123, and 5-3129 (PT/SRT-4) The horizontal bushings are the same PN 2406.

The vertical bushings are different.

3406, 07, 08 for 5-3129.

3368, 96, 70 for 5-3123.

My guess is the SRT set is a bit harder?

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:46 am

Hmm, maybe it's like the mounts for an MTX vs ATX, different part numbers even though they are the same?

wheels04sxt · Post by **wheels04sxt** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:29 am

my87csx481 wrote:How do you guys get the old bushings out using a bench vise? Specifically, the vertical one. Jenni's pic only shows the removed bushing sitting on the control arm.

i used a center punch big enough to fit around the sleeve, not in it, and a took BFH to it and knocked the vertical bushing out. then hung it over a metal bucket and melted the old ruber off. did the same for the horizontal one as well.

im sure melting it out of the control arm itself would be alot eaiser though.

dutch animal · Post by **dutch animal** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:42 am

just bbq the whole thing ... i used a big tortch ...

so easy ... just let it cool down before grabbing it of the floor

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:11 pm

occasional demons wrote:I left the vertical bushing in, and burned the rubber out while it was in the control arm. Why press the sleeve out, only to press it back in? Maybe that's why I found the ES bushings not a big deal to install.

I think the one side the rubber was already separated from the sleeve, I only had to burn it off the center tube. I also used the black SRT bushings instead of the red SE/SXT type. I honestly don't know what the difference is between the SRT and standard set. The LCA's are 100% the same except for the reinforcement in the sway bar area.

I also picked up the energy suspension ones. I wasn't planning on pressing out the vertical bushing's shell, just the rubber and inner sleeve.

I'm wondering if it's possible to simply press the rubber and inner sleeve out of the vertical bushing by using a press and a pusher that is smaller in diameter than the i.d. of the outer shell. I have access to some equipment once in a while....just unsure of the easiest way to get the old rubber out. Using a torch concerns me a bit. Doesn't this mess with the temper of the metal?

Anyway, thanks everyone for the help so far.

dutch animal · Post by **dutch animal** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:01 am

yeah it does mess with the strengt of the metal a bid, but here in holland there a some guys ( neonsonline.nl ) who did this yearsss ago and stil have there controlarms in great shape

never heard someone broke one around here

i did it myself about 5 K ( km ) ago

ACHEAPSHOT · Post by **ACHEAPSHOT** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:31 am

A blow torch worked wonders for me

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:40 am

I doubt just burning the rubber bushing is going to affect the structural integrity of the control arm. I just used propane to burn therubber. It's not like you have to get the metal part glowing red. Then yes, it might do some damage. Just keeping the bushing hot enough to sustain the burn is all that is needed. Just poke at it with a screw driver occasionally until it drops out. Then clean the residual rubber from the walls/center tube. Mine didn't really get hot enough to burn the paint off the LCA. The horizontal ones, I pressed out/squeezed in. A ball joint press works well for that. Seeing as you have new LCA's the BJ's are not an issue. So no need to mess with them. I had the BJ press handy, since I replaced mine.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:55 pm

I used an oxygen/acetylene torch. The metal got red, but I let it cool down on it's own too. I've not had any problems.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:16 pm

So many people burn them out and track their cars without issues to the structural integrity that I wouldn't worry about it.

vanquisheder · Post by **vanquisheder** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:51 am

ACHEAPSHOT wrote:control arm bushings A blow torch worked wonders for me

Agreed, always make it a point to keep one wherever you go, we never know when we might need it, especially if the situation demands a crawling time.

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:13 am

I used an arbor press to get the horizontal ones out....similar to using a ball joint press. Slid right out with ease. It's a monster press.

Used the same arbor press, with a different pusher, to press out the vertical one. Pusher was about the same diameter as the inner sleeve. The rubber ripped and left the outer shell in place while the inner sleeve dropped out. I plan to burn the rubber out tomorrow with propane.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:34 pm

Ok. I give up.

I have struggled for at least 4 hours and still can't get the vertical bushing to go together.

Anyone have any special tricks that they care to share regarding Energy Suspension LCA bushings?

Thanks.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:32 pm

my87csx481 wrote:Ok. I give up.

I have struggled for at least 4 hours and still can't get the vertical bushing to go together.

Anyone have any special tricks that they care to share regarding Energy Suspension LCA bushings?

Thanks.

Hahahaha... get prothane

in all actuality you'll 1st need to make the opening larger on the k-frame. It'll squish back together when the bolt tightens up. 2nd, carefully hold the pieces together while slipping it into place. When I did it we got the center bushing of the 3 into place and carefully got it put in. THIS is exactly why i got prothane bushings shortly there after. I had lots of problems with not only getting Energy Suspension bushings into place, but staying in place. They kept slipping over the edge of the k-frame.

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:43 pm

Yeah, I know....should have done more research and gotten the prothane bushings.

I actually have one side installed....FINALLY....what a pain in the a55. The head gasket, timing belt, and water pump job (freezing in November) went smoother and easier.

Hopefully the other side will be easier.

Any suggestions on a product and source for extra grease? I used up more than I should have....I think it's all in my blood stream.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:46 am

Prothane sells the little 1oz tubes, or you can get a 4oz (about that size) tub of it. I imagine any retailer, whether online or not, should have some.

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:25 pm

OMFG. Wrestled with the other side for at least 3 hours. Got the bushings in the arm and the arm in the K-frame perfect. Torqued everything down....still nice. Went to pry the control arm down to pop the ball joint in and....the bushing popped apart. The top bushing popped out of the top of the control arm and I suspect the inner sphincter is twisted inside too....both sides.

I cannot believe energy suspension sells such crap. Did they ever actually install a set of these and look at them in "action"? On paper, the design seems good but, NFG for the real world. I wouldn't even recommend these to my worst enemy.

Ordering the prothanes and replacing the crap ones this weekend coming up.

Thank you so much energy suspension for ruining what would have been a perfectly good 3-day weekend.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:11 am

Sorry Dude. I know people have had success with them, but this is exactly what happens to a lot of folks. The prothane will take you moments to do in comparison to what you just went through.

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:02 pm

I got the prothanes in today....with great ease.

After just under a week of driving on the energy suspension ones, they were starting to get damaged. There was a nasty indentation from the "shell" that looked like it was gonna' start to cut through the urethane....because the middle bushing popped the upper bushing out of the shell and a portion of the upper bushing that was supposed to be inside the shell was actually on top of the control arm.

I understand the need for it, but I think the upper and lower energy bushings are just way too soft for the super stiff inner sphincter.

The prothanes, so far, seem like they will be much better....and actually stay in place.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:26 pm

my87csx481 wrote:I got the prothanes in today....with great ease.

After just under a week of driving on the energy suspension ones, they were starting to get damaged. There was a nasty indentation from the "shell" that looked like it was gonna' start to cut through the urethane....because the middle bushing popped the upper bushing out of the shell and a portion of the upper bushing that was supposed to be inside the shell was actually on top of the control arm.

I understand the need for it, but I think the upper and lower energy bushings are just way too soft for the super stiff inner sphincter.

The prothanes, so far, seem like they will be much better....and actually stay in place.

After reading THIS..... I will never buy the Energy Suspension LCA bushings for a 2nd Gen Neon.

- Nick

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:05 pm

Good choice NickKo. Edit: Please tell your friends too. /Edit

All the agonizing installation time I bitched about earlier did NOT include the burning out of the old ones either....just screwing around with actual installation.

I wish I had done even a little research before buying mine. I found several horror stories on here when I was searching for tricks to get them installed....in the middle of doing the job.

Live and learn I guess.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:48 pm

my87csx481 wrote:Good choice NickKo. Edit: Please tell your friends too. /Edit

All the agonizing installation time I bitched about earlier did NOT include the burning out of the old ones either....just screwing around with actual installation.

I wish I had done even a little research before buying mine. I found several horror stories on here when I was searching for tricks to get them installed....in the middle of doing the job.

Live and learn I guess.

Well, I have read several other reviews of the Energy Suspension replacements, on this board, (virtually all of them negative.)

But I would always wonder if the problems were due to installer error, damaged parts, etc.

However, I have never read a review, as damning as yours.
We can rule out lousy installation, or other factors.

Sounds to me, like Energy Suspension, needs to REDESIGN their lousy bushings.

- Nick

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:20 pm

I have 50,000 miles on my ES and they are still holding up. You just have to cut a notch in the top part so it fits over the LCA. It keeps the top part from flexing up with the LCA movement.

A little observation on what is going to happen with suspension travel goes a long way. Of course installing them with the crossmember on the bench does have it's benefits.

I installed the completely assembled crossmember/LCA's into the car all at once. Just had the vertical bolts slid in to hold it in place.

I bought the Tub-O-Goo when I got the bushings. That crap doesn't wash off for anything. I covered everything to excess when installing. My arbor press handle is still sticky.

Caraudioholic24 · Post by **Caraudioholic24** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:32 am

I have my es installed for about 4k and so far so good...

I wish I saw this earlier man or I would have come down to give you a hand...

when I pressed mine together I used a ty wrap to keep it together until I crammed it back into the k frame then pulled the ty wrap off....

At least you are all set now...

my87csx481 · Post by **my87csx481** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:16 pm

I tried the notch trick, mentioned by occasional demons, on one side to help keep the top bushing from popping off before I could get the inner metal sleeve pressed in and get the entire assembly into the crossmember. It worked but, the middle sphincter still got twisted when I pried the control arms down to get the ball joint stem into the steering knuckle....and popped the top bushing out/over the control arm instead of inside the shell. The bottom bushing bulges kinda' funny when this happens as well....because of the middle one getting twisted. (twisted is not really the right word, but I'm not sure what other word to use.) Damn, I knew I should have taken pictures of this.

Sadly, I did have the cross member on the ground. I put a rack and tie rods and outer ends in at the same time. FSM said not to completely remove the cross member but, I took it out anyway....I was working on the ground, not on a lift. Figured it would be easier to get the rack out (and get a rough toe setting) with the cross member on the ground. I considered installing the LCA's into the crossmember while the cross member was out, and should have tried it but, I figured it would be easier to install the LCA's if the car was holding the cross member for me.

I think that I MIGHT have run into the same problem (upper bushing not staying inside the shell) if I had installed the LCA's into the cross member while it was on the ground....except the bushings MAYBE would have popped when the suspension drooped to the absolute end of down travel....instead of when I pried the LCA's down.

Not trying to argue. Just sharing what I went through. I personnaly like the concept of the ES ones better....but I really think the upper and lower bushing should be harder durometer and the outside diameter of the middle bushing does not need to have so much interference (bushing o.d. is too big for the shell)....in my opinion....but I'm just a machinist that works on his own car out of necessity, not an automotive suspension engineer.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:31 am

Hmm, I'll have to see what this "notch" trick is when my bushings come in. I've had the Prothane set in my car for about 2 years now and they have already failed! My stockers lasted longer than that! Other than ACR sway bars, my suspension is completely stock.