Please help me get this sorted for good.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:54 pm

Ok so my car has a problem, i will explain everything below, what i have changed and what i have tried ... hopefully someone can help!

so i got the car lowered about 20months ago, i bought some 35mm SPAX springs and paid a 'professional' to fit them.
so the garage fitted them to the original shocks (at this point the car has only 19000 on the clock despite being a 2001)
and i have noticed that they have cut the yellow rubbers on the shock in half ( i think these are bump stops)

now ... when i go over a bump in the road (even if its a small one) the car makes a banging noise, coming from the front ONLY! and BOTH sides. The bigger the bump i go over, the bigger the bang the car makes, if i go over the bump very slowly, no banging.

i bought some spring assistors, these are like big rubber coils that you put between the springs and this keeps the springs apart.

see pictures:

so you can see it fits in the spring when the car is jacked up and then when the car is lowered back down it holds the coils apart, and therefore it raises the car up a little...

the conclusion is ... this helps ... the banging noise is still there but nowhere near as bad as it was without these assistors.

the LCA bushings were shot so i swapped these out for brand new arms and fitted prothane bushings ... so new arms, new ball joints and new bushings .... no change

have checked the brake callipers and they are secure.

i cannot see any other bushings which are worn ... so im all out of ideas ... please someone help me fix it for good !!

sidepipe87 · Post by **sidepipe87** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:12 pm

very well could be bottoming out. I had this problem after cutting the bump stops. I had to buy new ones from the dealer to fix the problem.

Forest Green 2k · Post by **Forest Green 2k** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:01 pm

Guess you didn't get the "Don't buy fake ebay coils" memo...

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:30 pm

Forest Green 2k wrote:Guess you didn't get the "Don't buy fake ebay coils" memo...

SPAX springs are hardly 'ebay cheap brand' they've been going over 50 years and are VERY well known and respected in the UK

drivebuy · Post by **drivebuy** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:35 pm

you need to get shorter dampers

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:37 pm

sidepipe87 wrote:very well could be bottoming out. I had this problem after cutting the bump stops. I had to buy new ones from the dealer to fix the problem.

i was under the impression that cutting the bumpstops was the thing to do and the garage must have thought the same ... i will ring the dealer and see how much a new set are

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:19 pm

Do not ever cut bump stops on a car with very little compression travel ie a neon.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:46 pm

will post some pics up later with what mine look like,

just to check, does anyone know the sizes our bumpstops should be?

Id, Od & length ?

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:20 pm

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:06 pm

I would try replacing them with new, oem stops. Yes the lowering instructions tell you to cut them, at least the Eibach instructions did. I thankfully ignored that step. It just made me nervous cutting down on something that prolly compresses to a fraction of it's length.

It's not like they are going to really support the weight of the car, at rest, let alone the added factor of the weight in motion.

Of course this means removing the struts, pulling the top off, and back again. But you shouldn't need a compressor if they are lowered a fair amount. I installed mine by hand. (I didn't re use the original parts, so no need to take them apart.)

But if you don't feel comfortable, by all means use a spring compressor on the first one, just to see where it expands to. Better safe than sorry.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:16 pm

ok so i finally got hold of some new 'jounce bumpers' as Chrysler UK call them.

so ... how do i fit them? do i need to take the whole shock out or is there an easier way?

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Sat May 07, 2011 12:31 am

the only way to replace your bumpstops is to remove the strut assembly from the car, remove the strut mount (the top part that the strut rod connects to at the top), slide the only bumpstop off, slide new one on, reinstall strut mount, reinstall setup into vehicle, get a full alignment in the front.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:44 am

So i finally got round to ordering some bumpstops

2 important questions...

1) Do they look like the correct part?

2) Which way do they fit?

I never looked at the original and now they dont exist so i have no idea which way round they go

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:14 am

They do look correct, and the big end goes down.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:58 am

Fitted passenger side without too much problem.

when i took drivers side off hundreds of little balls were lying around and looks like theres a white bearing in there which is split open

guessing i need a new bearing!

just wondering, how do i know if i've reinstalled the strut / spring correctly, im guessing if its not there will be some major camber on it, any crude measurements you can take ?

inthewerks · Post by **inthewerks** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:40 am

nerox wrote:So i finally got round to ordering some bumpstops

2 important questions...

1) Do they look like the correct part?

2) Which way do they fit?

I never looked at the original and now they dont exist so i have no idea which way round they go

I fit mine and my stocks were all setup with the flat larger part facing up. And for the tiny balls, your strut bearing for the upper spring mount has fallen apart. need to get that replaced. AFWIW I have the bottom third of my bumpstop cut off front and rear with the shorter srt sportlines on my stock sxt struts, and I dont bottom out. It drove like shit when the bumpstops were resting on the strut so I cut them down a bit. Very nice ride now.

OB · Post by OB » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:26 am

Ok so your original problem appears to be the classic 'too soft of a spring for the drop' scenario. Bumpstops are there to keep the suspension from bottoming out. They also act like a backup spring (with a much higher rate) to help absorb the larger bumps and holes during normal driving. The reason people cut bumpstops is to gain additional suspension travel, usually because they have lost some in using a drop spring. Unfortunately, these cars do not have very much travel to begin with, and almost none once the suspension is lowered. Cutting or removing the bump stops can cause damper failure and even physical damage to suspension components. However, replacing your cut ones with new ones may not help your issue much. The strut is still going to bottom out against the bump stop, even more so since the new ones are longer and take up more travel. On the other hand, since they are full length and can compress more than the shorter cut versions, they will help prevent full compression and complete bottoming out, to an extent. But the violent event of going over large bumps will still be felt from the cabin, since the spring rate is significantly higher during bumpstop compression.

Ultimately, any spring that requires cutting of bumpstops to achieve proper travel is too soft for the car and should not be used. A 35mm drop isn't considered excessive, which tells me that these springs are VERY soft. I went through this with both Eibach and TEIN springs, 1.5" and 2" drops respectively. I cut the stops in half for the Eibachs, then in half again for the TEINs. I still bottomed out all the time, and it rode like crap on bumpy roads. The only time it felt decent was on smooth roads without any sharp bumps or dips. Unfortunately, there is really no way to fix this since it is a physical limitation of the geometry of the suspension. A much stiffer spring with a short stroke strut are the correct fixes, though I don't think either are available without going to coilovers (what I did).

inthewerks · Post by **inthewerks** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:42 pm

just curious I have a question regarding your post OB. My brother suggested to me something called koni inserts that go into my stock struts. I know the stock suspension travel is close to three inches. Do these inserts increase the the suspension travel, or are they just stiffer and compress much more slowly?

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:16 pm

the ride quality with only one side new bumpstop fitted was MUCH better ... no bottoming out at all ... for about a week .. now it seems to be back to normal. i wonder if the failed bearings have anything to do with poor ride?

would a change is springs help out at all, as you say they are much too soft. any suggestions for harder springs ?

i've ordered 2 new upper mounts so will change those and the other bumpstop and see how it goes ...

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:33 pm

I just ordered a pair of H&R Limited Edition Sport Springs from Silver Image Racing still for the $99/set they were originally offered as. After S/H total came to $138.63. These Limited Edition's give you a 5mm more drop than the H&R Sport Springs but not as much as their Race Springs.

1.7" Front / 1.6" Rear - gives it a beautiful stance and yet appears as stock should've been (lowered but not drastically low)

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:44 pm

Changed both sides bumpstop and gaiter

as you can see they were in poor condition!

Standard Shocks Made By Tokico?!

The bearings were in great shape so changed them too

Much Better

Ride quality is MAJOR improvement, yes the hard bounce is still there on the big bumps but at least it dosent sound like its gonna fall apart any second

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:57 pm

Sounds like the combination of using oem shocks, cutting the bump stops, and a bad spring hat all worked together on that one. A lot of cars are fine when cutting the bump stops, but the neon doesn't like that very much. I'd look into replacing those struts soon, they aren't really desinged for the shorter stroke and are a bit softer than aftermarket.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:12 pm

Donkeypuncher wrote:Sounds like the combination of using oem shocks, cutting the bump stops, and a bad spring hat all worked together on that one. A lot of cars are fine when cutting the bump stops, but the neon doesn't like that very much. I'd look into replacing those struts soon, they aren't really desinged for the shorter stroke and are a bit softer than aftermarket.

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into gettin some new shocks when i get some free cash, after i get back from Dominican Republic

OB · Post by OB » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:37 pm

inthewerks wrote:just curious I have a question regarding your post OB. My brother suggested to me something called koni inserts that go into my stock struts. I know the stock suspension travel is close to three inches. Do these inserts increase the the suspension travel, or are they just stiffer and compress much more slowly?

The inserts are just a way to get KONI valving into a stock strut housing. It happens to be the only way, since KONI doesn't make full replacement struts for these cars. Travel and geometry is unchanged.

nerox- Regarding your question earlier, there aren't any worthwhile options for a stiffer spring on a stock style strut, they simply aren't available on the market. There are some that are decent, like TEIN and Megan springs, but they are still far too soft for the drop they offer. If you want to even come close to getting around this issue, you will need coilovers. You can then use any spring rate and ride height you can dream of, and customize the ride and handling properties much easier.

So basically, the bottom line is, you have to pay to play.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:42 pm

OB wrote:If you want to even come close to getting around this issue, you will need coilovers. You can then use any spring rate and ride height you can dream of, and customize the ride and handling properties much easier.

So basically, the bottom line is, you have to pay to play.

I did consider getting coilovers in the first place, however the cost of them was a bit too much to justify in one go considering there were more important issues that needed resolving first.

The new bumpstops and top mounts cost me like $100 for both sides so i'm happy with the job theyve done for the price... but you're right ... coilovers is what we all need

OB · Post by OB » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:51 pm

At least you have it riding better than before. Maybe try to start a savings fund for coilovers. You don't have to go too crazy, for around $1000 USD you can get some very nice ones, much less for used ones.

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:00 pm

The only ones that are available in the UK are the BC ones and here they are £750 ($1200) the next ones are the KW Variant1's which are $1800 !