Mods during timing belt change

[racer12306]

I am planning on changing the timing belt this upcoming spring. It's a little early (car only has about 93000 miles on it) but I want to change the coolant since that is a little past due (OEM coolant so it will be 7 years old at the time of changing) and I figure might as well do the whole deal in one shot.

I was thinking of taking to the local mechanic but JerBear convinced me it isn't too bad of a job and said he would help me with it. So for the cost of what I would have paid for labor I'm looking to do a couple things.

I will be putting dog bones in, a solid trans mount and maybe the 95 cam that I have laying around if it's as perfect as I remember still. I would hope that it is since I soaked it in Rotella 5w40 and wrapped it tight with seran wrap.

I don't think an adjustable cam gear would really benefit me since I'm not going to dyno it to find where it should be and plus it's just a 95 cam so it's nothing crazy.

I already have an UDP.

Any other suggestions for stuff that would be easily accessed while doing the timing belt and such? I can't think of anything else that could be replaced in that general area.

[sidepipe87]

cam/crank seals if they're leaking, passenger side motor mount

[racer12306]

I will be putting dog bones in

Covered

Probably can't tell if they are leaking until the cover is off. I think I have those on my list of stuff to buy. They are cheap so it doesn't hurt to have them on hand.

[occasional demons]

I soaked it in Rotella 5w40 and wrapped it tight with seran wrap.

Unless you threw it in a lake, it should be fine.

The cam seal is a given, as the old one would get shoved out putting the cam in. They just slip in by hand. After the cam is in of course.

[Dylan-00Blue]

water pump.

[Canada]

Ported Aluminum SOHC manifold? Magnum Header? PC'd Valve cover?

[occasional demons]

water pump.

True that. While you're there... I know she said that too.


Also a tensioner idler for the timing belt. Or a whole new tensioner, w/e you feel like.

A motor mount bracket/Acc. belt tensioner used to be a good idea to replace, but they are priced too high for that now. Maybe replace that idler pulley too, while it is off.

[racer12306]

Canada, wanna hook a brotha up with a cheap one?


OD: I figure it should be fine, unless I'm forgetting the condition that I got it in.



Also, this thread is just for mods. I already have a list of the parts I will be buying, as in timing belt, water pump, tensioner, etc, etc.

[r/tguy02]

i know chris when he was building his 2.0 removed all the casting flash from the water pump housing to help improve flow. So thats something to look into. besides that theres not much to mod on that side of th engine, most everything just needs replaced.

[racer12306]

That's what I figured. At least I can get a set of dog bones out of it.

Probably won't get into it so deep that I remove casting flash, but we will see if it's easy to do with the engine in.

[sidepipe87]

I really can't think of any other easily accessible mods from the timing belt. Especially if you're working on the ground. I just helped my dad do my timing belt and water pump at work on his lift yesterday. Only other thing I could think of is urethane LCA bushings since you'll already have the side access cover and lower torque strut off.

[racer12306]

I'll look into that. I know on a RWD car that doesn't require an alignment but will it on a FWD car?

I certainly won't be working on the ground, my Dad has a lift and I wouldn't think of doing a major project like this without the lift. I only do oil changes and tire rotations without the lift.

[Mat]

I'll look into that. I know on a RWD car that doesn't require an alignment but will it on a FWD car?

I certainly won't be working on the ground, my Dad has a lift and I wouldn't think of doing a major project like this without the lift. I only do oil changes and tire rotations without the lift.

Lightweight.

[sidepipe87]

It is suggested to do an alignment afterward I suppose, but I have never done one and haven't had any issues related to it. The only reason I can think you'd NEED an alignment is if it was previously aligned with worn bushings and now they are positioned in a different location.

[racer12306]

I'll look into that. I know on a RWD car that doesn't require an alignment but will it on a FWD car?

I certainly won't be working on the ground, my Dad has a lift and I wouldn't think of doing a major project like this without the lift. I only do oil changes and tire rotations without the lift.

Lightweight.

I enjoy the finer things in life

I don't really have a lot of space to mess around with at my house, so I just head up to my Dads for major work.

I've been spoiled in terms of car work. I have always had a lift to work on and a garage to keep dry with a torpedo heater if it was cold. My Dad even has a climate controlled machine shop with a mill and lathe, so I can make what I break

It is suggested to do an alignment afterward I suppose, but I have never done one and haven't had any issues related to it. The only reason I can think you'd NEED an alignment is if it was previously aligned with worn bushings and now they are positioned in a different location.

hmmmm, probably would need one in that case because I had it aligned about 1500 miles ago (year and a half ago) because of a tie rod replacement. The plus is that the local mechanic is only a few miles down the road so it wouldn't be bad to drive it over to him.

[ZeroChad]

How do you jockey the engine around while its on the life? I haven't really used one much.

Check out my progress log from when I did my first rebuild. There are a lot of good pics there for reference: LINK Let's see if I can find my list of things I did...

Exhaust
Cheap Header--------Pacesetter/Mag/ebay Something to hold me over until the turbo
Downpipe---------------I'll probably get a new one with a cat delete that'll be compatible with the srt manifold and have room for a wideband.
Header Studs---------Not too sure if I should Invest in these.

Top End
Mag Head---------------[Have]. Doing some minor P&P
Cam----------------------[have]Went with a comp 400
Cam Gear----------------[have]Fidanza Adjustable
Head bolts--------------Need this if I'm gunna boost (ARP?)
Cam Seal----------------Might as well

Bottom End
Crank Seal--------------Might as well
Water Pump------------[have]
Tbelt Tensioner--------[have] Litens
Tbelt---------------------[have] Might go for a Gates Racing though
Oil Pump----------------High Volume. Not too easy to find.
Idler Pulley-------------Gates replacement

Other
Radiator Hose----------I think these are a 100k maint item too.
oil
coolant

I ended up getting a cheap mag header with arp exhaust studs and head studs.

[BlackRoseRacing]

^^^
Don't use head studs on the 2.0........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank,
I know you don't run your car like some of us here, you may as well go with the Mopar timing belt kit. If you plan on revving your engine often over 5000rpm then go with the Gates racing timing belt as this will help with deflection. The 95 cam on a Non-Mag head, not worth the time and effort. Even the Crane #14 on my Mag head was not that big of a gain for the time and effort on a daily driver.
For a driver I would recommend:
Long runner intake manifold
60mm TB
UDP - which you already have
Comp Cams 400
Mag head - depending on how involved you want to get
^^^ shave the head .020 to up compression a point
Magnum header or equivalent
High flow cat
This should at least get you close to 130hp at the wheels.
Now I'm also wondering if the DSP will work on your car to change shift points...IDK.....

[r/tguy02]

Don't use head studs on the 2.0........

now why do you say not to use arp head studs?

[occasional demons]

On the 2.0 it is not recommended to run head studs
The 2.4 is ok, but not the 2.0......
As per Ed Peter's (Chrysler Engineer)

[sidepipe87]

Chad, You lower the car down with a jack under the engine pan when you need it angled up, and when you want it to hang down... you just lift it up and it looks like the engine is going to fall out. The cat and the tranny keep it from doing so.

Frank, when you have it all back together you'll know if you need an alignment. After I did mine the steering wheel was no longer straight... but it still drove straight.

[r/tguy02]

On the 2.0 it is not recommended to run head studs
The 2.4 is ok, but not the 2.0......
As per Ed Peter's (Chrysler Engineer)

not going to argue with ed peters, i'm just looking for a reasonable explanation as to why "no dont use them"
(not pertaining to Frank's build) but in higher hp (boost) applications wont stock head bolts stretch? It was my understanding that the arp head studs were much stronger. Even if you just gave me a link to ed's page where he talked about it i'd appreciate it

[heydockyle]

It was something about the studs being to short and it pulling the threads out.

[occasional demons]

It was something about the studs being to short and it pulling the threads out.

Or the threaded depth of the block was not deep enough. But has anyone really had an issue?

[heydockyle]

I think he did say a couple people had the problem, but noone he knew personally.

And I figured it was the studs not the block. If it was the block wouldn't it have the same problem with the bolts?

[occasional demons]

The bolts are torque to yield. They are stretched to clamp the head down. So there is room to give. The studs do not stretch like the bolts. They would either snap, or pull the threads out.

[ZeroChad]

It was something about the studs being to short and it pulling the threads out.

Or the threaded depth of the block was not deep enough. But has anyone really had an issue?

No issue here.

[racer12306]

^^^
Don't use head studs on the 2.0........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank,
I know you don't run your car like some of us here, you may as well go with the Mopar timing belt kit. If you plan on revving your engine often over 5000rpm then go with the Gates racing timing belt as this will help with deflection. The 95 cam on a Non-Mag head, not worth the time and effort. Even the Crane #14 on my Mag head was not that big of a gain for the time and effort on a daily driver.
For a driver I would recommend:
Long runner intake manifold
60mm TB
UDP - which you already have
Comp Cams 400
Mag head - depending on how involved you want to get
^^^ shave the head .020 to up compression a point
Magnum header or equivalent
High flow cat
This should at least get you close to 130hp at the wheels.
Now I'm also wondering if the DSP will work on your car to change shift points...IDK.....

Yeah, that's way too involved and way too much money.

I'm talking about some little stuff.

I control my own shift points

[OB]

Yeah I was gonna say, Frank is MTX last time I checked.

Regarding the LCA bushings, an alignment is a good idea, but not really a requirement. If the old bushings were worn, you might see a small change in measurements. Toe will be worse if only one of the two bushings are bad, since the arm will tend to shift under load. If the car has 90k miles on it I'd bet it will need more than LCA bushings. Might just get a master kit and call it a day. They'll probably outlast the rest of the car.

[occasional demons]

Toe will be worse if only one of the two bushings are bad, since the arm will tend to shift under load.

Brings back memories of my '64 Polara. The tension strut on the front arm had an end bushing missing. Every time the brakes were applied, it would slap against the frame. As soon as I had the $, I got a new rubber biscuit. It was a little unnerving seeing the wheel move back an inch or two when the brakes were applied.

Knowing how much load is on the LCA's, it doesn't surprise me the bushings fail so quickly. With no tension strut to help support the load, they are going to wear, especially the wimpy oem ones.

[fusion210]

I'm not sure if they improved the casting flash on the block by the water pump, but on my 1998 neon it was not only obvious, but something easy to do. So I did it.

I don't think I've ever seen pics of someone else's, but here are a before/after of mine.





I just used a dremel tool. You could probably use a hammer and a punch to break off the ledges left in place too.

Another old mod is removing every other outer fin of the water pump. Supposedly under higher RPMs there is cavitation caused by the OEM pump. I've found a cool page with a how to, to test it http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Water-Pu ... ticle.html but when I did mine I didn't have the will to mod the pump at all.

The 95 cam is a great idea, you can use the 8mm bolts holding the inner timing belt cover to the block as a place to put an extension around the cam gear. Just use one socket on the cam gear bolt and stick the other on the timing cover bolts between the spokes of the cam gear to hold it in place. Works great.

One of the supposedly great ''oiling mods''' is porting the oil pump housing, if you're willing to take that one gear off along with the oil pump. Someone on this forum had pics, but I think they've been removed. Plenty self explanatory though, open up the port of the oil pump housing where it seals against the block with an o ring.