It may be dead...But it's coming back!

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:55 am

So I was just stranded in Orlando for a few hours. Coming home from Disney, my car makes a grinding noise and then all power is lost. I had to coast to the shoulder of the interstate, fighting the wheel since power steering was lost. Car won't start, starter motor clicks, but I can tell the cylinders aren't moving. I'm pretty sure the timing belt snapped. I finally got the car home to Tampa, I'll find out more about what's wrong in the morning.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:48 am

It didn't want to leave Mickey.

Hope it isn't too serious.

rojna · Post by **rojna** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:09 am

Pull the plugs and try to rotate the engine with a breaker bar on the crank-pulley, if it moves pull the inspection hole plug on the timming cover and check if the cam is rotating, if not ... timing belt is gone.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:29 pm

Why not just pull the inspection plug first? The plugs in won't keep it from moving, just make it easier, if it is even the case.

Even if the belt broke, the starter should be able to keep smashing the piston(s) into the valves. Unless it got unlucky enough to happen at full lift. With an ATX, it could bring things to a sudden stop. An MTX would prolly keep bashing away, until the clutch is pushed in reaction to the noise. If it is a valve to piston contact keeping it from turning, the crank should turn CCW. for about 300º until it hits the offending valve. If the valve was at full lift, I would imagine there may be rocker/cam damage also, if the head did not bend over into the combustion chamber roof.

It could be an oil pump failure. That could make some ugly sounds. If it brought the engine to a halt due to exploding, it may be a relatively cheap fix, depending on how it failed. It could also get ugly.

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:11 am

So apparently I need a new:
Thermostat
Power steering pulley
Timing belt
Timing belt tensioner
Cylinder head
And all the required gaskets.

The dealer said it was going to be $3000 to repair, I'm trying to get quotes from other shops to see how much cheaper it will be. I may end up just trading it in and getting a new car...

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:58 am

GreeNeons03 wrote:So apparently I need a new:
Thermostat
Power steering pulley

id like to know how they established you needed a thermostat and it doesnt even run...
as for the pulley, how the hell did that get damaged?

i'd def get another quote on repair as my evaluation says they're probably getting extra work out of you.

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:33 am

Junkyard motor would probably be cheaper depending on what they go for there.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:43 am

heydockyle wrote:Junkyard motor would probably be cheaper depending on what they go for there.

This. But if you don't have the tools/place to do it....

And I would replace the timing components/WP in a JY motor to be safe. Parts to repair your engine would be anywhere between $400 and $1000, depending on where/what deals you could find. Then who knows if it needs a piston or not. If the head is damaged bad enough to replace it, vs fixing the bent valves, then the piston is prolly toast. Or at least a risk of breaking down the road.

lilnicko11 · Post by **lilnicko11** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:08 pm

how many miles were on ur car??

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:26 pm

103,000 miles. They power steering pully has had a chip in in for a couple of years now. I've tried to get them to fix it, but they always tell me it won't effect anything.

alsey_seven · Post by **alsey_seven** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:00 pm

sell one of your rims

OB · Post by OB » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:31 pm

Hmm they said the head was toast but the bottom end was ok? That doesn't make any sense at all. If the pistons hit the valves (only way a snapped timing belt could damage a cyl head) then the pistons are surely in bad shape. I would source a JY motor, and see what someone would charge to swap it. I would bet book time is probably in the 10-12 hr range, for a longblock. Should cost maybe $500 for the JY motor and maybe $1000 for the work, give or take. Or you could do it yourself (a friends garage with a picker maybe?) and save the $1000+.

Trade in for a car with a blown engine will probably be sub $1000. Bad idea..

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:35 pm

I got it towed to another shop, they're going to look at it first thing in the morning and get me an estimate.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:23 pm

So it seems the 102K mile timing belt service is a very hard limit, then?

Sucks about the car man, good luck! Hopefully you can find a cheap enough repair!

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:24 pm

I wouldn't say it's a hard limit. There are people with nearly 200,000 miles on their belts and they haven't broke.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:25 pm

That was (very slightly) a joke.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:25 pm

Ahh, poor implementation

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:26 pm

Easy there Mr. Admin. I still know how to cause trouble around here.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:41 pm

It may have been the water pump seizing, that caused the belt failure. I like how the first place didn't list the WP, but did the t'stat.

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:48 pm

The first place whs the stealership. The shop it's at now was someplace recommended to me by my uncle.

Swordfish2Cowboy · Post by **Swordfish2Cowboy** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:19 am

TheRandom1 wrote:Easy there Mr. Admin. I still know how to cause trouble around here.

Watch out or he'll lock the topic on you.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:24 am

I would be very suprised if your car really needed a head. I bent all of my intake valves and the guides and head were fine. The valves are designed to be the weakest link. Not saying that there may not be damage there, but you may want proof that the head needs to be replaced before shelling out that kind of money.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:32 am

Danteneon wrote:I would be very suprised if your car really needed a head. I bent all of my intake valves and the guides and head were fine. The valves are designed to be the weakest link. Not saying that there may not be damage there, but you may want proof that the head needs to be replaced before shelling out that kind of money.

Exactly, I've heard of plenty of folks, getting away with just replacing the valves, and re-installing the head back onto the engine.

- Nick

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:06 pm

They would have just swapped on a reman. head, instead of rebuilding it themselves. For the dealer, it is prolly more profitable/simpler.
They would have likely have to send the damaged one out to an independent shop to have the valves replaced/seats refinished, gasket surface milled with a clean up pass, valve seals, etc. to have it done properly to avoid a warranty return on their work. Slapping on a reman. head saves all that headache.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:17 pm

And passes the "savings" on to the customer

Trust me, I know this is how the dealer does this, but the OP can really save some serious money if he is willing to take this job on himself. The whole repair can be done for around $300-$400.

Granted, it isn't something to be taken on without any knowlege or tools, but it can be a great learning experience

If more Neon owners were willing to do these kind of jobs themselves, these cars would be on the road longer.

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:01 pm

I'm willing to do it myself, I just don't have the space or knowledge...

GreeNeons03 · Post by **GreeNeons03** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:34 pm

So the car's going to get fixed at a different shop. It's going to be $2000 to get it done. After much begging and pleading and saying "that cost more than the car is worth", the actual owner of the car (My Mother) will not listen to me, nor allow me to get a new car. So it's going to get fixed until I can afford a new car or until the next thing breaks.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:35 pm

Nice?

c987long · Post by **c987long** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:57 pm

this is why i have a copy of all data so when something like this happens, i have the means to fix it.

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:04 pm

man too bad i dont live in fl, i'd do that job for half that price and still make decent money.