2005 SXT won´t start after reinstallation of engine

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:13 am

For the bodyworks the engine and the ATX-trany had to got out. The cabletree had been stressed a bit I think, cause the front-part had been cut out and renewed with an undamaged used one.

After the work had been done, all had been installed back again.

Last days I spent with rewiring the engine, plugs and so on.
I had to solder two pins on the black (ngc) pcm-plug and install back some more things.

Unfortunatelly the engine isn´t starting anymore.

This is the way it should be...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQpY_yBgxXg

but this is what happens on the SXT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y37NKbToQ-E

if I try to start the engine.

A look outside and I saw that the starter tries to work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur10ku2CPWs

but nothing more happens than a try. The noise comes definitely from the ASD-relay - this is what you here from the inside, too.
(running engine in the back is my 2000 LE...)

These lamps are always on with ignition on

I checked the plug from the starter, the ground, the ground from the relaycenter and so on - everything seems ok.

But my netbook with OBD-Plug won´t connect to the PCM - so I guess all is related to the damn black plug and/ or any of the other three.
At the black I had to solder the yellow (ignition-cable) and the red/white (should go to the OBD-Plug).
(Pin 29 rd/wt[Fused B+] and Pin 30 yl [Fused Ignition Switch output])

Anyway - I installed the rear towing-latch

seems to get more and more important that thing

and had to stop the work by now for the moment

Any suggestions welcome

Jenni · Post by **Jenni** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:08 am

PLUS: it's fucking cold outside...

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:46 am

Does the SKIM light normally come on when keyed on, or only when it locks down?

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:38 pm

You mean the red dot ? I have not took as much attention to it as it seems I should.
Will check that out tomorrow.

Haganracing · Post by **Haganracing** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:52 pm

Yeah, that red dot should turn off a couple seconds after you have your ignition on.

After watching your video of how your car starts now... Sounds like what happened when I tried using a different pcm that had a different skim code to it..

I would assume its something with your pcm.. is there a way you can test/check the pcm to make sure its still good?

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:54 pm

Those are two different clusters in the videos? If the cluster was changed, was everything reprogrammed? This is related to that red dot too...

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:57 pm

Unfortunatelly not. My 2000 sure is pre ngc and the ngcs are as rare as SRTs are in germany...

Other parts (radio, the wiper, the horn, the fan) are working, but maybe they are not directly related to the pcm.

Meanwhile I figured out that the PIN29 rd/wh cable which goes to the OBD-Socket should be working (measured the resistance with my simple multimeter) so I would have soldered that correctly.
The other (PIN30) I have to study the wiring where it is routed to after reaching the C103-bay.

I am still wondering if the SKIM should have forgotten my keys ??
But more true should be the plugfailure-idea.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:04 pm

If the SKIM doesn't recognize the key, the ASD will engage to prevent the car from running.

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:27 pm

And that will sound as it does on mine ?

Really bad noise.

I think about getting a key-copy for my 2000 and try that there

Maybe I should read the manual for the skim-thing, but as I noticed that correctly, the known keys cannot be reprogrammed so if it would be a skim-thing, I would need new keys ??
Or anything in the wiring between pcm and skim is faulty.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:36 pm

I don't know what's up with that noise. I was referring to the red dot being lit up, since it should go off after just a few seconds.

BTW, what grade bolts are those for the tow latch?

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:59 pm

The original bolts were rotten and had a different head. I just bought bolts with I think SW15 or something.

I am alyways wondering how the towing goes for you without that latches, which make it a lot easier.

Just read wiring and think the black plug seems to be the most important. Hope that I find something there to fix...

Haganracing · Post by **Haganracing** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:13 pm

darthroush wrote:I don't know what's up with that noise. I was referring to the red dot being lit up, since it should go off after just a few seconds.

The only time my car had the red light stay on and that noise go off was when I had the wrong pcm in my car that was programed to a different skim then mine.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:59 pm

Not sure what an "SW15" bolt is, but you should have at least a grade 8 bolt on there IMO. Metric might be easier for you to find; class 10.9. Class 12.9 would be the "ultimate."

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:37 am

With SW15 I meant an open end wrench 15mm, don´t know the quality of the bolts, just took what I got at the store. I could take a look onto the rotten original bolts and tell you.

With the failurething I studied the wiring and came to the idea, that because the SKIM communicates via the PCI-Bus, the Diagnostic-Plug has that wire and PIN38 on black PCM-Plug1 is that wire (D25 20vt/yl), too, it maybe would be a broken wire or a lost contact on the black plug.

Could anybody try out with a simple OBD-USB-Adaptor if it connects to the NGC-PCM with just ignition on and without cranking ?
I´ll try that on my 2000, but maybe there is a difference between pre-ngc and ngc.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:42 am

I only mention the grade of the bolts because it they aren't a strong enough grade and that actually gets used, there is a very good chance that they will just snap.

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:20 am

Just tried the OBDII-Plug on my 2000. It connects to the PCM even without a key. Then it shows something like adpater ok, connected to the bus but no response. If i turn the ignition on (only, without cranking), it connects and shows some values like throttle position, temperature and so on.

Yesterday on the SXT it neither said adapter ok nor connected to the bus.

Now it would be great to know, if on NGCs it should work the same way as on the pre-ngc like my 2000.
If so, it would be a proof that there is something wrong with the bus wiring.

***

The bolts I´ll check out - anyway I think that this would be true but not most important ´cause the bolts are holding the latch on both ends of the bolts. So if there is a too heavy weight to be towed, it must chop off the head and the "foot" of two bolts.
But 100% a good question. I never thought about that point.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:33 am

I'm not quite sure what you are asking? If I plug in my OBDII code scanner without the key it, it'll recognize the computer but will "error" after a bit if I don't put the key in and turn to on.

If the load is too heavy, no matter how "sturdy" everything looks, they will give.

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:59 am

OK - if I connect my OBD to my 2000 without key and without ignition on the software shows that it is connecting to the bus. This is what the OBD does not do on the SXT at the moment.
For that reason I think it might be a bus-problem anywhere.

Just checked out the vt/yl PCI Bus-cable from the black plug to the OBD-socket and it seemed to be working, the two ground Pins on theblack plug, too.

Anyway, I think I´ll start the research as soon as it ends being so f...... cold outside.

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:02 pm

Yeah, mine is powered by the OBD system. Once I plug it in, it turns on. It just won't read the system until the key is on. But yes, it recognizes with or without the key in and on.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:46 pm

It shouldn't matter if it is non NGC or NGC, they should both have the OBDII plug, as they are both OBDII. OBDI ended in 1995 or '96.

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:45 pm

yes sure - they do. The wiring is a little bit different, but anyway.
Until now I noticed no response of the SXT PCM if I plugged in the adaptor.
Today I made another few tests and found out a strange behavior I think.

If I connect the OBD without key and without ignition on it is finding the adaptor and the bus...

and if I turn on the ignition (only) it is loosing the connection

First try I had been able to connect to the PCM and it had shown some values.

A new video of the ignition-procedure...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdS4nERk7HE

What the hell is wrong ...
I will try the 2nd key next few days and will see what happens, if I use the remote to close and open the car.

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:06 pm

She´s back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F-EUic6AwU

Checked and grinded the groundwires.

Now I can get on the rest - at last.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:57 pm

Gnuserup wrote:
These lamps are always on with ignition on

so the red dot is your SKIM notification. If that light does not go off the car will not start because the three parts to the SKIM are not matching. It could be the Key, the Ignition cylinder, or the PCM. I've included some steps towards correcting this issue, but I'm not sure exactly all that you have done here to help pin point.

there is also a few ways to reflash the stage one using the DRB III and the method of doing them allow you to reflash the VIN and skim code. there is a posibility that they will work for a regular stock stage 0 ecu too. have not heard, but i dont see why not....

heres the link on how to do it below....

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43352 - reflash method
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43350 - rekey method

Gnuserup · Post by **Gnuserup** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:04 pm

Thanks for that info.

Luckily all is fine now - including that no lights come up now if they shouldn´t

So I am happy that there where no problems with the pcm or SKIM, it just had been a groundwire-failure

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:38 pm

Simple things are always good, even if they can be a pain in the a$$ to find sometimes.

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:39 am

Could this be the problem with my car? The skim situation that is talked about within this thread? I did try a different ECU, skim, and key/ignition and still had the no fuel pump kicking in, nor engine cranking over. I can get it to crank over by jumping the fuel pump and starter relays. I'm going to try some of the other "solutions" people have suggested in this thread.

Here is a link to where I am having my problem....

viewtopic.php?t=57312

cgneon · Post by **cgneon** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:56 pm

if you put a skim equipped tach cluster in your 2000 pre ngc ECU then yes the light will light up because there is no skim. BUT it will not affect anything.. i put a cluster like that in my car 2001 since i wanted a tach, and all i did was pull the bulb.. never had a problem..

edit: nevermind, misread something somewhere, forgot it was an 05

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:59 pm

I have a SKIM equipped cluster, and PCM in my non skim '01, and the light never lit up. But then it also starts/runs fine for some unknown reason.

All I get is a communications code, but it has worked fine from the day I installed it.

And no Dante, you are not getting your DRB near it.

My luck, it will lock down.

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:13 pm

occasional demons wrote:
And no Dante, you are not getting your DRB near it.

My luck, it will lock down.

Maybe I can get near Dante's DRB.

Priced them on eBay and my golly gee wilickers those are NOT cheap!

2GN.ORG

2005 SXT won´t start after reinstallation of engine

2005 SXT won´t start after reinstallation of engine

Re: 2005 SXT won´t start after reinstallation of engine