Knocking sound with video, what causes this?

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:23 pm

Not my video, but searched around today on the 'tube to find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWb-CIKq ... re=related

Want to figure it out before I end up like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsO9WEwitfo

So, is it serious?

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:59 pm

Hard to tell in the Video. Is it more a ticking sound at idle, gets louder as you press throttle but remain in lower rpms then goes away after hitting some of the higher rpms? If so you're going to spin a rod bearing anytime now. Best bet is to fix it now before you do spin it and either shear off a piston rod and blow a hole in your block OR just cause damage to the crank. Even now if you're going to fix it you probably should get the crank checked. Yes I'm a hypocrit! Goodluck! Rod bearings are cheap too from the dealer!

UriahRR · Post by **UriahRR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:03 pm

What is up with that engine bay's odd battery location and weird hot air intake?

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:07 pm

Not my car, but yes, it occurs at idle to around 1500rpm and goes away.

You think one of the bearings is shot or what?

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:08 pm

^seriously rob? its a 1gn, and an ebay WAI. reason you dont see it going down the front is because of the dual fan setup and stock airbox, its damn near impossible to fit a 2-1/2" pipe inbetween there.

as for that noise, just sounds like normal sohc engine noise to me. They arent the quietest engines, especially with some miles on them.

@ the blues brothers

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:09 pm

I will get an actual video of mine.

UriahRR · Post by **UriahRR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:14 pm

r/tguy02 wrote:^seriously rob? its a 1gn, and an ebay WAI. reason you dont see it going down the front is because of the dual fan setup and stock airbox, its damn near impossible to fit a 2-1/2" pipe inbetween there.

Oh sorry, it looks like a 2gn engine bay shape , but everything inside is different. Here's to not knowing anything about 1gn's

/offtopic

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:15 pm

Found another video, sounds like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL5zZcCdYvU

Not the injector noise, but the noise behind that, that is inconsistent.

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:22 pm

NitroNeon wrote:Not my car, but yes, it occurs at idle to around 1500rpm and goes away.

You think one of the bearings is shot or what?

Do you know the history of the car? How was it treated before you owned it? Be honest, do you run high rpms? Check your oil regulary? Change oil regulary? Does your oil light sometimes come on going around sharp corners?

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:14 pm

The car was bought at a salvage auction (light frontal damage), rebuilt by a family member and purchased with 119K on the clock.

An STP oil filter was on the car when I changed it at 120K, oil appeared "normal", if I had to estimate, I would say 5-30 was ran in it for approximately 7K miles, but it was likely very old oil.

Dip stick had golden oil stains on it, but level was good when I picked it up, no signs of water in oil when drained.

One thing that concerned me was a brown, sand like powder/granule that plugged the coolant overflow tank cap and neck. My fears were that the entire system was plugged with this crap and the car would take out the head gasket shortly. Roughly 1K miles before I did the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump, I got a new upper radiator hose and coolant, took scalding water from a hose and flushed out the overflow bottle and most of the coolant. The small brown granules were present around the filler cap, but were not like sand but more like a polymer substance. They have not returned since.

I ran 5w30 in it for 5K miles with a PureOne filter, and as it sits right now it has 10w30, all conventional oils, and I always run a PureOne filter.

Car never saw more than 4K rpm before I changed the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump assembly, at approximately 122K miles.

I probably go WOT in first or second gear 3-4 times over the course of a tank of fuel. I also occasionally throw it in 1 and rip through the twisties with it, hanging it in the 4-6K rpm range on and off the throttle, probably once every other tank of fuel.

Oil changes are 5K miles or earlier, and the oil light has NEVER came on.

How is that for honest?

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:16 pm

Ok depending on how quick you go through a tank of fuel, seems to me it is a rod bearing going. I go through a tank of gas every 2 days when I had my car on the road. That's cause I live in isolation. But ya a spun rod bearing is generally due to oil starvation. Revving your motor that high is not good cause the oil pump cannot keep up with it cause the pickup tube is not of an adequate size. I hope someone else chimes in here soon so we can help you out before it's too late.

As for that brown stuff on coolant bottle, maybe they had a coolant leak problem and put sealer in the overflow oppose to the cap ? I'm not sure.

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:22 pm

Possible piston slap?

Suppose I could pull the pan this weekend and check the rods out.

bennettmotorsports · Post by **bennettmotorsports** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:23 pm

r/tguy02 wrote:^seriously rob? its a 1gn, and an ebay WAI. reason you dont see it going down the front is because of the dual fan setup and stock airbox, its damn near impossible to fit a 2-1/2" pipe inbetween there.

as for that noise, just sounds like normal sohc engine noise to me. They arent the quietest engines, especially with some miles on them.

@ the blues brothers

I have to agree with both. That is a 95. The last year they used that type of valve cover.

But I had a 95 that I drove forever and it ran until I got rid of it. I also had a 96 that sounded like that if I recall.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:24 pm

00Neon RCR wrote: Revving your motor that high is not good cause the oil pump cannot keep up with it cause the pickup tube is not of an adequate size.

The 2.0 was designed to run at 7200 rpm all day.

From the last video example, it sounded like a lash adjuster more than a bad bearing. But not actually hearing it, it is just a guess.

You could use a long screw driver, or rod, ad put it on the rocker cover, and your ear at the other end, then put it on the block, and where ever it is louder, will tell you where the problem is. Either in the bottom end, or the valvetrain.

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:29 pm

This is an ATX so it never sees more than 6000rpm.

6000rpm and a 1g lateral load can cause failures for sure due to lack of baffling in the pan, IIRC.

It sounds exactly like the last video i posted, comes and goes softly like that, speeds up as revs increase, then smooths out around 1.5-2krpm.

I will get a video of it and post up here. It currently has 128K miles on it, and the noise was slightly noticeable when I purchased it, and was ruled as piston noise.

Is there any adjustments to be done on the SOHC valvetrain?

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:38 pm

No adjustments. Zero lash hydraulic adjusters.

If it smoothes out and gets quiet past 1.5-2k rpm, it is not a bearing. Likely a weak lash adjuster. The whole rocker arm is required to fix it, if it bothers you enough.

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:42 pm

NitroNeon wrote:It sounds exactly like the last video i posted, comes and goes softly like that, speeds up as revs increase, then smooths out around 1.5-2krpm

That makes me even more certain it's signs of a rod bearing on the brings of spinning. This happened in my 00 I had. It started out normal ticking at idle. Then slowly that got louder. Then it got a loud ticking as you start to give it gas. It would get loud then vanish at about 2500 rpm. Keep running it like you do around the twisties and I'm almost positive you will then notice it's getting worse and takes higher rpms for it to vanish (the sound) then shortly after you will be driving and either car stalls or will stay running but you'll hear grinding noise like bolts rattling. That is actually the sound of the piston rod shaking. I'm talking from experience.

Also I swear I read before that the ticking everyone calls "Piston slap" is actually something to do with our transmissions pulling the motor or something? Or does it sound like I'm on glue?

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:49 pm

I will continue to run it the same way I have been, if it turns into a hard knock, then I will be sure it is a bearing.

Running 10w30 made no difference. I could simply pour in some 15w40 Rotella (great oil) but this engine is really not meant to run it. Maybe at 200K miles...

BTW, I get ~230 miles before my fuel light comes on.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:53 pm

The only affect a transmission (MTX) can have on an engine to make ticking/knocking sounds, is if the pressure plate was stiff enough to wear out the thrust bearing, it will cause issues. Whatever force is needed to push in the pressure plate fingers is directly pushing on the flywheel/crank shaft. The flex plate used on '96 and up would prolly absorb most of this. (And prolly crack/break eventually)

I doubt there is enough side thrust from a TC to do anything.

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:10 pm

5w30 and 10w30 are fine for these cars. Generally one is suppose to be better in Winter conditions (5w30) I believe. And vice versa. However I didn't find in the summer the oil I swapped to worked for me and car didn't feel like it was running as strong so went back and just run the same oil all year around changing every 5000kms or sooner.

230 miles is like 370 kms. I was getting 400-450 kms normal driving so Im not sure if yours is good or not... going with no. :S

Thanks for the clarification Bill. I knew I read something about that before.

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:25 pm

The only time I get 450 kms on a tank is when I am on the highway.

I typically see 22-23mpg with back country driving, lots of stop signs, hills, turning, etc. Out on the highway, over 25.

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:29 pm

Oh that makes sense now. All mine is hwy

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:43 pm

Yeah, not too impressed with the mileage, but it is better than the Crown Vic I used to drive. (17.5mpg)

Might do an MTX swap on it. Whole list of things I could do with it that is for sure...

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:28 am

i would rule out the lash adjuster...

it's a constant sound right? yes i know it goes away around 2500rpm, but engine temp doesn't change it any does it?

I ask because my motor has about 160000miles and its got at least 1 bad lash adjuster, it ticks REALLY bad when its cold but once the motor is up to operating temp, the ticking completely goes away until the next cold start...

so I would rule that out in your case...

NitroNeon · Post by **NitroNeon** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:34 am

Opposite, engine is quiet when cold and knocks/rattles when warm.

NiteHawk · Post by **NiteHawk** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:37 am

definitely not lash adjuster...

Kelevra · Post by **Kelevra** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:52 am

Sounds like my neon before I had the engine replaced under warranty.... Shavings were in my oil pan... pull your pan to confirm. shavings = bad news (this goes without saying)

2nd opinion from my father: Rod bearing

inthewerks · Post by **inthewerks** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:40 am

I have had this problem once before. When I purchased my car 36k, was on conventional

oil. When I replaced with synthetic

, got that same noise for same duration. Was unhappy so next change was at 200 miles after synthetic

was added. I went back to conventional

and have not heard that noise again.

wargod4200 · Post by **wargod4200** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:49 am

i have the same sound on my 02 neon mtx sohc with 116k at 1500 rpm its been that way i guess sence i got it and and ive been driving it for 1000 miles now and the sound has not changed in all the time so can i change the rod bearings if thats what it is with the motor still in the car ?

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:50 pm

If, it is the rod bearings, yes you could drop the pan and change them. Provided the crank journals are in spec. Also IIRC, the rod bolts are torque to yield like the head bolts. Not sure if re use is a good idea, or common practice. More experienced members will chime in with their luck on the bolts...