Shop says can't do alignment, wtf?

Icon_xof · Post by **Icon_xof** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:43 pm

Ok, so I scratched up enough cash to get a 4-wheel alignment done at the local shop. Doing this because I replaced the front struts and both rear strut assemblies.
Anyway, I drop it off yesterday morning aand get a call a few hours later (I was asleep, 3rd shifter). Voicemail said they had to talk to me about my car (04 SXT). I call the lady back, but by then the shop had closed. Luckily, it's also a towing company so she answers 24/7.
So I ask her what's going on. She said she couldn't tell me for sure because her notes were at the shop, but the jist of it was that they couldn't do the alignment because of some front end damage.
I talked her into meeting at the shop today at 4 so I can get my car back and see exactly what her mechanics are telling her.
Now, I'm no pro, but I've done quite a bit of work and research on my car, and I can't think of a single thing that would prevent a shop from doing an alignment.
If there's that kind of damage up front, I would have noticed it. In the past month I've replaced the radiator, checked my brakes, tie rod ends, inspected the CVs for wear, even took off the front bumper cover the other day just to practice for when I can afford to get it painted and I noticed nothing out of the ordinary.
The only damage that has been done to the car is when I hit a raccoon on Easter. Mostly just rubbed off some paint, cracked up the front splash guard, and cracked the bottom of the radiator. So I've been real up close with my front end lately getting her pretty again.
Now, my car was a front end salvage, but the shop did a good job restoring it: spacing between the bumper and fenders are tight and consistent, cross members good, etc. My cousin and I thoroughly inspected the front end of the car before I bought it.
I called him up and he says they're feeding me BS. And from what I've learned about suspension and alignment, I think he's right.
So, I'd like to get some opinions from my fellow neon folks. All replies are appreciated.
PS-once I get my car back and see what these "notes" say I'll report back. Thanks ya'll! =]

boostalot717 · Post by **boostalot717** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:58 pm

you need to find a KNOWN good car and start measureing. Don't measure to points that can move ie frenders, bumpers, things of that sort. You should use frame rails, rad support, k member.

Here is my story broke loose going around a turn and brushed a guard rail at about 110 in my 04. Damage was DS headlight broke, paint on bumper and small crinkle of the fender. I have seen worse damage come from a parking lot. Still drove straight down the road and handled just like factory. Replaced all the parts and had them painted. Like 200-250 miles after the body work I noticed a little tire wear on the driver side. I figured it was jarred out during the accident so to the alignment shop. Got the same call, took it home ripped everything off again and started measuring. My DS frame rail/fender rail was bent down about 0.75" and to the right about .375". Fixed that and then had it aligned and hasn't moved since and that was about 6 years and 45K ago.

I guess what I am saying is don't trust anyones work. If the alignment shop has good mechanics and you trust there word I would start measureing. One thing that seems to get unnoticed by lower quality body shops is the k-member. If that is bent or has been pushed from where it should be nothing on that front end is ever going to be right.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:09 pm

Until you get the facts, you won't know why they can't do the alignment. Could be that the ball joints/tie rods are too worn/loose. Maybe the outer tie rod is seized to the inner.

Even if the car is not straight body-wise, the alignment could still be done, but they may not be able to get it to spec. Or they might be able to get the wheels straight, but the car may still track wrong because of the twisted body.

Wait and see what they tell you.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:17 pm

Where are you in Michigan? I know a few local guys (to me) that will do an alignment no matter what, they might charge out the ass of they have to fight something but will do it nonetheless

Icon_xof · Post by **Icon_xof** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:43 pm

Right on guys, thanks for the advice. I'll wait until Tuesday to see what they have to say, but in the mean time I'm going to start researching how to DIY alignment. I believe I heard/read that as long as you take your time, make accurate measurements, and have a good assistant, it's more time consuming than difficult.
I'm really anxious though to see what they have to say, because like I said in the first post, I've been inside, outside, over, and under the front end a million times playing with her, and I've never seen anything that looked out of line, bent, etc. And trust me, I've looked a lot for stuff like that back when I was having problems with my ASR fuse checking for pinches, rubbing and the like. Anyway, I might hop on here tomorrow if I decide to go through with anything. May even search for or start a thread for advice on DIY neon alignments. I'd rather have the tools and know-how anyway.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:34 pm

Dante nailed most of it on the head. There are rare instances (and i'm lucky to have experienced it) where there was no visible damage, but the car could not be aligned. Other places and reasons I've run into places not being able to align my car is because of the equipment that I have on my car and their liability... and... my own personal specs which work pretty damn good. So, I have to take my car to a shop that works with race cars to get it aligned and pay the extra $$$.

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:51 pm

Maybe your tie rods were too rusty...

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:31 am

If you're short on cash you can always find a local high school auto body shop to check it out, if they have a frame straightening machine that is. My high school did and I straightened out quite a few when I was in auto body.

OB · Post by OB » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:36 am

There's some good advice in this thread

Listen to these guys.

nicksdad06 · Post by **nicksdad06** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:04 am

u should check ur lca bushings also. they might be worn out.

OB · Post by OB » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:17 pm

Normally the shop will tell you when it has bad bushings/parts, but I guess they didn't rule anything out so who knows. I have my money on the frame not being straight, just because you mentioned it was a front end salvage. Any suspension or frame issue can easily cause them to stop and get you involved though. A good shop will not align a car that has a problem, mainly because if their adjustments don't hold, they have a liability issue. This is the same reason most won't touch cars with aftermarket suspension and also why they often won't accommodate custom setting requests. No way of knowing until you get the specific details though.

Icon_xof · Post by **Icon_xof** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:23 am

Looks like I'll just have to wait and see what they have to say come Tuesday. As for the history of the suspension (since I've had it): Replaced both rear strut assemblies with Monroe quick struts, added a rear anti-roll bar from an '01 with energy suspension end links, replaced front struts but kept original springs (wanted the front end lower for handling purposes). All new tires except driver side rear, all the same size and tread depth still looks good with the exception of some slight feathering on the front ones. Something is definitly off in the front though. When driving straight, the steering wheel is tilted to the right, but it doesn't pull in either direction. It wasn't always like that. I can't remember if it went cockeyed after I changed the front struts, or after I hit a big raccoon (impact on front passenger side) since they happened within about a week of each other.

Whatever the case, I'll let you guys know what they tell me as soon as I talk to them. Luckily, my dad has an '03 SE so I have a good car to compare measurments with if it comes to that. In the mean time, I'll check the tie-rods, control arms/bushings, and ball joints this afternoon if I get a chance.

Thanks a lot for all the input guys. It's real nice to know that I have a great community to work with when I have these problems =]

Icon_xof · Post by **Icon_xof** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:58 am

So I talked to the shop, and they said the reasons they couldn't do the alignment are: need new Vertical Control Arm Bushings, new Ball joints, and new left tie-rod. I looked at the tie-rod and it was pretty rusty looking, so I can buy that. I'll go out and check the ball joints soon. According to the Haynes all you need to do is try and wiggle the snap off grease fitting with the weight of the car on the wheels. If it moves, the ball joint's bad, if not it's good. I'll check control arm bushings too.
EDIT: I think the ball-joints may be starting to go bad, any recommendations on a good brand? The control arm bushings definitely need replaced. I'm gonna go with the Energy Suspension kit. And if I gotta replace one rusty tie-rod, I may as well get both. Think I'll go Moog there. Got a new project

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:19 am

Moog, always had good luck with their stuff

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:50 am

At least they didn't go ahead with the alignment. I just had mine done due to changing springs earlier in the year. I haven't had time to really give it a good look over. I got it back, and it still felt like an LCA, or tie rod was bad.

So I had some time last night, and from the best I can tell one or both inner tie rods are shot. Now how the f*ck can you set toe with slack between the two ends? They will be getting a call here shortly...

A 14:1 Shadow rack may be the next mod...

2GN.ORG

Shop says can't do alignment, wtf?

Am I being fed BS by my local shop?

Shop says can't do alignment, wtf?