2003 Transmission might have blown

jf52 · Post by **jf52** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:18 pm

Hi, new guy here,
My wife was driving at abut 30mph when she felt the car shift hard and smoke filled the inside. She parked and called me. I looked in the engine compartment (driver's side, behind engine) an the whole thing looks like someone dumped a bucket of ATF back there. I am having the car towed home as I type. Any thoughts?
2003 SXT, 72000 miles manual trans.
Thank you.
Jerry

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:35 pm

My guess is the differential pin has slid out, and made a nice hole in the trans case.

If the tires have been spun a lot on snow/ice, etc, it is relatively common for this to happen. It may happen at the time when one tire is spinning, or it can happen six months down the road.

Somewhere in 2003/2004, they added diff pin tabs at assembly to prevent this. All older MTX's need them installed if you feel it is worth the trouble of taking the transaxle apart.

I did mine when I changed the clutch. But that was at 125,000 miles.

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully we can help you out. :/

Alex Kurdian · Post by **Alex Kurdian** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:59 pm

occasional demons wrote:My guess is the differential pin has slid out, and made a nice hole in the trans case.

If the tires have been spun a lot on snow/ice, etc, it is relatively common for this to happen. It may happen at the time when one tire is spinning, or it can happen six months down the road.

Somewhere in 2003/2004, they added diff pin tabs at assembly to prevent this. All older MTX's need them installed if you feel it is worth the trouble of taking the transaxle apart.

I did mine when I changed the clutch. But that was at 125,000 miles.

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully we can help you out. :/

Wow Bill mate how do ya know so much about the neon are you actually a mechanic?

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:01 pm

Maintenance technician. I have no life.

jf52 · Post by **jf52** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:23 pm

So car is here, I'm trying to post a pic but in the mean time:
ATF in radiator,
ATF in expansion tank,
Thankfully no ATF or water in engine.
I plan on digging into it after work tomorrow and hopefully I'll figure out how to post a pic.
Thanks for the help so far.
Jerry[/img]

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:29 pm

Ouch, the curse of the exploding tranny cooler. Basically should be able to flush your trans and get a new radiator and you might get lucky. It could have already caused serious damage though

sidepipe87 · Post by **sidepipe87** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:31 pm

since when does ATF run through the radiator on a 5 speed?

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:38 pm

Since the op stated atf in post #1.

I didn't actually read the first post either so, my b!

jf52 · Post by **jf52** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:51 pm

Mike, thank you, and bear with me. When u say radiator do u mean the tranny cooler or the whole radiator?
Like I said, tomorrow afternoon ill jack it up and see what I find underneath.
I can get around my Ford truck and my moms frontier pretty good but I'm new to small cars. Thanks for ur patience.
Jerry

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:59 pm

Sorry I hadn't actually read the first post. On the auto transmission cars the transmission cooler is integrated into the radiator. That being the case when the tranny cooler breaks it floods the radiator with atf and the trans with antifreeze.
you having a manual trans don't have that problem

jf52 · Post by **jf52** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:17 am

Oh man, my bad. Apparently I didn't read my post either. I have the auto trans. I feel like a dumb a$$.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:24 am

No biggie man, we all make mistakes. Hopefully nothing got messed up so bad that a good tranny flush, a new radiator, a good engine flush, and a separate tranny cooler wont fix.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:59 am

Yeah, I doubt it is the Diff pin. Unfortunately I read it. The ATF cooler was my first thought, until I read manual trans. Then I was like Oh shit, ... MTX grenade.

Yep, hopefully it just happened, and the coolant didn't get soaked into the clutches too badly. It may take a lot of flushing to truly get it all out. The torque converter holds a bit of fluid.

It can be drained, by drilling a hole (with a strong magnet at the drill site) and they have a special rivet that seals the hole. But this is usually a trans shop practice.

At $5 a quart for ATF (or much more for a shop's markup), sometimes it is more economical to drain the TC, than to flush it a few times...

jf52 · Post by **jf52** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:26 pm

Thanks Bill, I'm going home early and try to start tearing into it .
My plan is to
Drain trans.
Drain radiator........
How do I know for sure if its the radiator, I can order one and have it here by Saturday.
Thanks
Jerry

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:38 pm

The atf cooler in the radiator has been a problem lately. The best solution is to get an external cooler, and bypass the in tank one. You could loop the ATF lines in your existing radiator, after cleaning it out, so coolant won't leak out. It would save buying another radiator.

A more permanent solution would be to have the tube ends soldered shut, or replace the radiator. An MTX radiator will work, if you can get one cheaper. You may need an MTX lower radiator hose tho. Just be very careful getting the hose off the water pump inlet tube. if you change the hoses. They are easily broken. Carefully cutting them off is the safest way, if it is stuck.

jf52 · Post by **jf52** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:36 pm

[/url]
top down view notice the milky fluid on the lower frame.
I'll start draining fluids and post more pictures later .

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:07 pm

Yep, the ATF being forced into the radiator lower tank pushes it into the overflow, then down the firewall to the cross member. Have you checked the ATX fluid yet? Hope fully it was just pushing it out, but when the engine is off, the pressure in the radiator will become greater, and push coolant into the trans cooler lines. As long as it hasn't been driven/run since it quit, the damage might not be too bad.

jf52 · Post by **jf52** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:26 pm

Alright, drained all fluids.
Engine oil was good, radiator looks like a strawberry shake, pulled pan on trans. and its clean oil.
From radiator on left, eng oil on right.

ATF pan
[/img]

Trans.

I ordered a radiator fron Carquest, should be here tomorrow.
What do you guys think? you've all been a great help so far.
Thanks.
Jerry[/img]

dcorwin822 · Post by **dcorwin822** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:11 am

get this: DORMAN Part # 265801 (rockauto $18.92) its a trans pan with a built in drain bolt for the neon's auto magic transmission.

get 2 good wix filter as well for the trans. from rock (#FT1122 $8.23 ea) (comes with gasket as well. your choice to use it or not. I suggest permatex ultrablack in the self dispensing can for easy application if you don't want to use the rubber gaskets. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... 91386_0_0_)

Go to Walmart and get some, 4-6 qts of Supertech atf+4 fluid (Typical service drain and fill is 4 quarts. If the TC drained it could be upwards to 8.6 qts to fill) and a few, at least 5 (2 for chemical flush, 2 for flush, 1+coolant concentrate) gallons of distilled water and a bottle of Prestone 10 minute flush. The cooling system holds approx 1.62500 US gallons. plan accordingly when you purchase distilled water.

Go to Napa (that's where I found mine locally) and get some Zerex G-05 coolant concentrate 1 gallon jug (Its the same thing that the factory installs except it doesn't have bitterant and red Dye) (http://www.valvoline.com/products/brand ... ifreeze/42)

1. Put on a new Wix filter gasket and pan. (trq to 165 INCH LBS or 14 ft/lbs DO NOT SUPERMAN THESE! THEY WILL BREAK; you're really S.O.L if they do)
2. Fill with 4 qts of ATF+4.
3. Fill with 10 minute flush than the distilled water. fill coolant tank to the hot level.
4. Start engine and check trans fluid level. Making sure its in the cold range correctly.
5. Idle car until the cooling fans kick on and than wait an additional 10-20 minutes.
6. Let system cool. Drain and fill with straight distilled water.
7. repeat step 5.
8. Repeat steps 6 and 7 until clean water comes out.
9. Fill with 50/50 mix of Zerex G-05 coolant and distilled water.
10. Take it out for a spin and when you're out after a good bit of time check the trans fluid and make sure it's correct in the HOT zone. Double check the coolant res. tank as well. Check it again after a few days of driving to make sure it's still at the right level. It will take a few warm up cycles to completely bleed the system of air. (see pages 7-19 to 7-20 in the FSM for more details)
11. Drive it normal for a month or 2 and drain and fill the trans.
12. Drive it again for a month or 2 than drop the pan and replace filter and install GOOD ATF+4 (IE: mobile 1 crap)

Hopefully she's shifting normally and wont be that much of a ticking time bomb. My G/F's neon had this happen to her almost a year ago. Those are the steps I've take and have had good luck with them so far.

Notes, tips and things I want to say about this:

With the heat of the trans and the engine going hopefully any moisture trapped in the trans will evaporate and the residue from the coolant will get washed out by the trans fluid being flushed out.

At first I started with the generic Prestone coolant and I've got about a inch or so of crud sitting at the bottom of my res bottle. The generic stuff does NOT like being mixed with the HOAT coolant that Mopar puts in at factory. The G-05 stuff is the same stuff installed at factory so it doesn't have compatibility issues.
FSM:

The green coolant MUST NOT BE MIXED with the orange or magenta coolants. When replacing coolant the complete system flush must be performed before using the replacement coolant.

CAUTION: Mopar Antifreeze/Coolant, 5 Year/100,000 Mile Formula (MS-9769) may not be mixed with any other type of antifreeze. Doing so will reduce the corrosion protection and may result in premature water pump seal failure. If non-HOAT coolant is introduced into the cooling system in an emergency, it should be replaced with the specified coolant as soon as possible.

Don't worry about using the Supertech ATF+4 fluid. Walmart has to submit a sample to Mopar to get that license. Mopar also does random off the shelf sampling of the stuff as well.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html:

Manufacturers can make ATF+4 fluids, but to use the trademarked ATF+4 name in their compatibility list, they must have their fluids tested and licensed by Chrysler engineers, and must use Lubrizol in their formulations. Licensed fluids are periodically sampled from stores to assure quality.

I suggest doing a regular 30k mi ATF drain and fill. Having that pan will make it easier to do. I don't like taking ATF showers.

If you feel the trans will hold out forever i suggest a external cooler. I don't have one YET but I've been eying this B&M cooler: http://www.bmracing.com/PRODUCTS/Automa ... x5-3-4x3-4

Capacities:

Engine Oil - 2.0L - 4.5 qts. (with filter)
Cooling System - 6.5 qts. (1.625 gal ) (inc. heater core and res. tank)
Automatic Transaxle - Estimated Service Fill - 4.0 qts.
Automatic Transaxle - Overhaul Fill Capacity with Torque Converter
Empty - 8.6 qts.

edit: added fluid capacities.

2001Neon_LX · Post by **2001Neon_LX** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:06 am

I know when this happened on my '01 I had the tranny flushed 3 times over the next year after it happened and i was still getting crap out of it. That and the bottom 1/8" of the tranny dipstick always had crud on it when i would check the fluid.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:27 am

Cool deal. You got lucky it only pushed the ATF into the radiator. Good thing she had the smarts to shut it down as soon as something wasn't right.

dcorwin822 · Post by **dcorwin822** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:19 am

jf52 wrote:Hi, new guy here,
My wife was driving at abut 30mph when she felt the car shift hard and smoke filled the inside. She parked and called me. I looked in the engine compartment (driver's side, behind engine) an the whole thing looks like someone dumped a bucket of ATF back there. I am having the car towed home as I type. Any thoughts?
2003 SXT, 72000 miles manual trans.
Thank you.
Jerry

Any updates? Don't leave us hanging!

2GN.ORG

2003 Transmission might have blown

2003 Transmission might have blown

Re: 2003 Transmission might have blown