Need help in diagnosing a growing problem...TIA! :)

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:02 pm

Ok so here's a quick run down of what I have monitored thus far...this has been going on for about 2 weeks now & seems to be getting louder/worse. I'm about to seek out the stealership "excellence" as I'm stuck...I'm really hoping my fellow forumers can help me out some w/ any ideas

The problem: My '03 SXT is making a sound that I can only explain as this...besides the word "loud humming" or possibly a "roaring" coming to mind as an adjective...I can best describe it as the noise an engine/tranny makes at about 3k-5k RPMs right before it shifts. That growing, growing, growing "rrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRR" :shift: nice and quiet again. However, mine is still loud "RRRRRR"ing lol

Here's the facts that I know:

1. No codes.

2. Just changed tranny fluid about 5k miles again. Level is right on queue and clean.

3. Brand new oil w/ filter, air filter, spark plugs have < 10k miles, coolant has < 15k miles.

4. Car idles at 700-800 RPM after initial 3-5 min warm-up (about 11-1300 RPM) - normal.

5. Tranny shifts right on queue. However, if I'm climbing a steep hill and doing say 45+ mph, sometimes it will stay up at 4k and shift a little late but then again, it's a 4 cyl. after all lol

6. Traveling RPMs: 22-2300 RPM at 60mph, 2500 RPM at 65mph, 2700 RPM 70 mph, 28-2900 RPM at 75mph, 3k RPM 80mph. Appears normal to me for a 2.0 4 cyl.

7. If I do stay at 80 mph, it will stop making that loud humming and go back to a "normal, quiet" ride for like 30 seconds give or take then go back to loud humming, go back to "normal," then continue to loud hum.

8. The humming starts at only 30-35 MPH then continues as the speed climbs, getting louder with the speed. It does not seem to occur at < 30 MPH.

If I think of anything else I can add I will...TIA as always!

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:26 pm

do you have a cold air intake?

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:41 pm

No sir I do not. Everything is OEM with regards to my retrofits and window tint lol

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:46 pm

maybe try to get a video ?

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:56 pm

I tried from my blackberry coming home...it's not clear enough to be distinctive - to you all it would just sound like bad noise

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:05 pm

03SXTGUY wrote:I tried from my blackberry coming home...it's not clear enough to be distinctive - to you all it would just sound like bad noise

Maybe try putting your car in low gear and getting it up to 4k or so and see if it makes the noise. Its possible that it could be a bearing in the transmission going.

Another thought.. It could also be a wheel bearing.

sidepipe87 · Post by **sidepipe87** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:25 pm

you say humming and I think wheel bearing immediately...

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:26 pm

sidepip87 wrote:You say humming

Possibly humming isn't the best adjective for me to use...My wheel bearings were just checked like 2 months ago & still have a lot of life to them - and I've had wheel bearings go on me a lot before...this definitely doesn't sound like a wheel bearing to me, and straight/left/right doesn't affect it at all. It is a constant LOUD roaring (painfully annoying so I blast the radio). The only time I have yet to hear it stop for a little bit is traveling at 80mph. Even at 70-75mph it won't stop.

The only thing that I can possibly think that could've caused this to happen was possible over exhaustion on the engine/tranny? Just last month I drove the 5 hours out to Cincinnati & back - doing almost a constant 75-80mph at 3k RPMs as most of the trip was a 65-70mph speed limit.

I'm sort of hesitant at the possibility that it might be the tranny as it seems to be shifting smoothly & right on time w/o any issues...although, I only have drove it in Drive. I haven't tried D3-2-1...

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:33 pm

03SXTGUY wrote:
sidepip87 wrote:You say humming
Possibly humming isn't the best adjective for me to use...My wheel bearings were just checked like 2 months ago & still have a lot of life to them - and I've had wheel bearings go on me a lot before...this definitely doesn't sound like a wheel bearing to me, and straight/left/right doesn't affect it at all. It is a constant LOUD roaring (painfully annoying so I blast the radio). The only time I have yet to hear it stop for a little bit is traveling at 80mph. Even at 70-75mph it won't stop.

The only thing that I can possibly think that could've caused this to happen was possible over exhaustion on the engine/tranny? Just last month I drove the 5 hours out to Cincinnati & back - doing almost a constant 75-80mph at 3k RPMs as most of the trip was a 65-70mph speed limit.

I'm sort of hesitant at the possibility that it might be the tranny as it seems to be shifting smoothly & right on time w/o any issues...although, I only have drove it in Drive. I haven't tried D3-2-1...

like i said, try it in low gear and see if it makes the noise at 4k or so. If it does, its probably the tranny.

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:37 pm

Does it have to be at 4k? It starts after 30-35 mph which is still around 2k RPMs

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:19 pm

i was just saying 4k because my car used to make some weird noises similar to that, and thats how i diagnosed it

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:09 am

What happened to be your problem?

This is worrying me...this is from fixya.com where someone posted:

"my 05 dodge neon has very loud engine noise and in order for it to get quiet i have to be in 5th gear at a little overe 40 mph,the sound is coming from the drivers side"

the mechanic replied:

"Hate to say this but your problem is likely a bearing in the transmission. Here are some things to check and tell the transmission shop when calling around for estimates.
The transmission is in first gear 0mph and the clutch pressed is there any noise.
With the transmission in nuetral and the clutch released is there noise, might not be as loud as when driving.
The gears that are noisey and those that are quiet.
You may want to check the fluid level first, and for the correct fluid. If you need transmission repairs get a price and an inspection on the clutch at the same time, it will save you from paying the labor twice if you are going to keep the car."

Besides the fact that mine is an ATx, I'm wondering if me driving at that constant 3k RPMs out to Cinci destroyed my bearing or perhaps another part of the transmission? Transmissions are the one thing I don't know jack sheet about...lol

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:48 am

If it is a bearing, I doubt it is anything you did, or any prolonged speed. It would just be a defective bearing. If it was low on fluid, it would have quit long before a bearing failed from it.

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:07 am

Well Bill, I did just change the tranny fluid like 5k miles ago - it is still clean & pink along with at the correct level...

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:28 am

03SXTGUY wrote:Well Bill, I did just change the tranny fluid like 5k miles ago - it is still clean & pink along with at the correct level...

Yeah, honestly i dont know what my issue was. When i switched the motor, clutch, intake manifold, clutch fork, tob, etc... It quit making the noise. Mine only seemed to do it in first gear though.

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:13 pm

gee, is that all?

XxWhiteNeonxX · Post by **XxWhiteNeonxX** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:41 pm

03SXTGUY wrote: gee, is that all?

no, there was more.

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:07 pm

Ok, I just got back from driving 50 miles highway/city down to Washington, PA. Drove in D1, D3 & Drive. I honestly believe the loud noise/moan has nothing to do associated with the transmission - as the sound seems to be over top of the "normal" sound of the engine/transmission...not caused by them. I called the stealership and they can't fit me in for a week - so I made an appointment for next Wednesday at 8:00am. So, I guess I have until then to figure this out on my own.

It's probably something SO stupid that I'm over looking...such as the noise I thought was coming from my front right wheel well happened to be my exhaust rear section just not fully tightened down LOL

This moan is just so loud...I have no idea where to even begin to pin point it. At idle up to 35 MPH it does not occur and she sounds nice & quiet. From 35 - 75MPH she is roaring like a lion. At 80 mph it becomes intermittently "fixed" then presumes to moan again. I'm stumped...

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:25 pm

Just thought of something, prolly not it, being that loud.

But check the tube that goes from the rear of the VC to the air box. If the filter in the air box is plugged, or the tube is blocked, the PCV will make a strange noise, due to too much vacuum in the crank case.

IDK if the oil pump in the trans would make the noise. Possibly if the trans filter is partially blocked? You would think there would be shifting issues.

My point about the fluid being low, is it would have burn't a clutch pack, and stopped before a bearing failed. (Unless there is an oil feed problem specifically to the bearing.)

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:45 pm

Bill,

Here's the newest info I have for you:

In response to "the tube that goes from the rear of the VC to the air box"...I'm sorry - what is a VC? The air filter is brand spankin' new - just replaced it 2 days ago so I know for a fact it isn't the air filter that is clogged. I'm willing to try to check the tube that you mention though - I just need more information/pics of which tube you're suggesting...

But, on my way home right now, I was playing around as even my dad said it sounded like a possible tranny issue after I told him all of the symptoms.

On my flat road, coasting at 40 mph (foot off of gas) the noise was just as loud as when not coasting. So, I down shifted to D3, the noise is the same. Shifted down to D1, noise is the same. All awhile, I am still coasting. So I decide, "hmmm. Let's try throwing it into Neutral." I put it into N, still coasting, and the noise is still the same. Not one thing (tone, loudness, etc.) changed throughout all of the gears + Neutral.

To me...if it was a possible tranny issue (gears, bearing, etc.) causing THAT loud of a noise...in Neutral, shouldn't it stop all together or at least subside? I truthfully am not feeling like this is a tranny issue...which is good news! But bad news in terms of diagnosing lol Also, if my tranny was having any problems, wouldn't the TCM throw codes to the ECU? I have no codes, whatsoever.

What are your thoughts?

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:51 pm

If it is in the gearing that turns with the wheels, then yes it will make noise as long as the car is moving. Neutral does not disconnect the gear train from the axle shafts. Hence why you cannot tow it for a long distance with the front wheels on the ground.

VC = valve cover. The tube is called an Air Make Up Tube. It goes to a small square filter in the air box. (Stock)

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:00 pm

occasional demons wrote:If it is in the gearing that turns with the wheels, then yes it will make noise as long as the car is moving.

...although, mine only makes noise at 35mph + ??

on the info about the air box

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:20 pm

Well, "expect the worst and wish for the best" I believe is the saying...? lol If worst comes to worst and I need a new tranny, I found an 05 tranny w/ 43k miles on it for $450.00. Does anyone know what an average independent mechanic would charge to do a full tranny install?

bigtommy83 · Post by **bigtommy83** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:09 pm

to me it sounds like wheel bearings still. you said they were checked and "had plenty of life". I am not sure how you could know that. My rears went, and it echoed through the car to sound like the front. I had someone sit in the rear to help me pinpoint which bearings they were. They are not as susceptible to the left/right swerve to load them up to change the pitch of the noise. Also, did you check if your tires were chopped?

Pablodragon · Post by **Pablodragon** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:21 pm

Tried reading this post over twice again, and had another suggestion... don't think it ws mentioned...

How about tires?... my stock tires were getting pretty bad before I replaced them and they were doing the same kinda thing... would "roar" only at certain speeds....

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:16 pm

To answer both questions about tires - my tires are brand new Hankook Ventus V12's - they have less than 5k miles on them and are the quietest tires I have ever driven on. The noise started way after purchasing & driving on these tires so I highly doubt that is it. The noise today was even louder than before driving home from work. I'm going to try & call my independent mechanic in the morning to see if he'll take it for a test drive.

bigtommy, I have driven & rode before with many many people who had bad wheel bearings. I completely understand where you're coming from - but this sound is nothing like a wheel bearing...I'll fall over if it isn't indeed my transmission. 94,500 miles...never installed a tranny cooler - definitely sounds according to Mopar's life on auto transaxles like it could be my turn...lol

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:26 pm

With that mileage, it is a good chance the ATX is done. The 40te in my brother's Sebring only made it to the 60,xxx mark. That was with no radiator cooler failures, just normal driving.

IIRC, it also made some kind of noise before it quit totally. I didn't personally hear it, so I have no way to confirm/relate to your noise.

03SXTGUY · Post by **03SXTGUY** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:35 am

Yea Bill...I'm thinking we're both on the same page now. Before, I didn't want to even think it was the tranny - but the more I think about it + try to diagnose...also, knowing the history of the ATX failure either with or without the transmission cooler failure at the bottom of the radiator...I'm more along the lines of thinking that is my problem.

I am off Sunday - Wednesday this week so I'll be hitting up my indy to see what he thinks...and if need be, I'll stop by a tranny shop and have them test drive it for their opinion.

Poor Charlotte...haha

sidepipe87 · Post by **sidepipe87** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:18 pm

I wish we could hear the noise because the symptoms all seem like a bad wheel bearing.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:37 pm

You both are from Pittsburgh.