KYB GR-2 struts from tire rack..

blackjack23 · Post by **blackjack23** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:48 pm

are these any good? are they better then OE?

Here:
http://tinyurl.com/3qduqtm

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:48 pm

Yup, they are pretty good. They hold up much better on lowering springs than oem ones. Technically they are oem replacements, but they are a bit tougher and better quality.

magner · Post by **magner** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:59 pm

these are OEM replacement, i wouldn't say they are built to handle stiff aftermarket lowering springs.

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:23 pm

yes these are more of a stock replacement, if you want something that is better suited for lowering springs, look at tokico HP blues

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:22 pm

magner wrote:these are OEM replacement, i wouldn't say they are built to handle stiff aftermarket lowering springs.

I hate this mis information. They handle lowering springs just fine. Got 70k on sportlines, with the kybs which is a pretty agressive setup. Tokicos are specifically designed for lowering, but also have a different dampening rate.

OB · Post by OB » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:24 pm

^ I wouldn't say this is misinformation, the GR-2 line is indeed OEM-equivalent in terms of performance and valving. This means that they are less than optimal when used with springs rated higher than stock. Just because they don't blow seals shortly after installing them with lowering springs doesn't mean they are designed to be used with them. It comes down to whether the goal is simply to pull off the install, or to correctly lower a car and increase handling performance.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:31 am

The mis information comes from people just saying they are OEM replacements which comes off sounding as if they are OEM and thus crap: incapable of handling lowering springs. They can handle the lowering springs because they are a higher quality product than OEM. Simply put it really comes down to what kind of dampening levels you want. On the softer side KYB vs the Tokicos which I assume provide a firmer ride or higher dampening level.

I put mine through hell and they performed extremely well for my setup at the time and I know it wasn't just the springs doing all the work. And I also know i'm not the only one. Also, i'm not claiming them to be the best thing in the world, just severely underrated, so...

I think really it is more a choice of how you want to adjust your suspension without having to go full out on coil overs... even if coils are completely worth it.
thats my rant.

OB · Post by OB » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:16 am

I know what you mean, people do knock them for the wrong reasons. However, OEM quality is actually usually very high. The issue lies in the design from a performance standpoint. Regardless of quality, it's the valving and thermal properties of the damper that really count, and that is where the OEM-style strut is a poor choice when using stiffer and shorter springs. Whether they can 'handle' it or not shouldn't be a deciding factor when it comes to strut choice, which is where I believe there is yet another misconception in our community. At any rate, this is all in good spirits, everyone is entitled to do things the way they see fit. I just tend to get scientific from time to time, as some of you know

Moving along, I apologize to the OP for the semi-hijack. If you're going to use aftermarket springs but can't afford/don't want coilovers, I would recommend the aforementioned Tokico HP (Blue) struts, from both personal experience as well as to agree with the general 2gn.org consensus on strut choice. They are valved nicely and work well with a variety of spring sets. They also come with rear tabs for sway bars (not sure if the KYB's do or not). If you are on stock springs or similar, KYB GR-2 all the way.

hansken_yo · Post by **hansken_yo** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:50 am

Yes it is all in good spirits, and i'm pretty sure the information given over this will lead to an informed decision, which is best. And, yeah, KYB comes with the rear sway bar tab as well.

Though, so do coils

OB · Post by OB » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:55 am

magner · Post by **magner** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:50 am

hansken_yo wrote:
magner wrote:these are OEM replacement, i wouldn't say they are built to handle stiff aftermarket lowering springs.
I hate this mis information. They handle lowering springs just fine. Got 70k on sportlines, with the kybs which is a pretty agressive setup. Tokicos are specifically designed for lowering, but also have a different dampening rate.

Saying a strut designed for a specific application will work with aftermarket springs is mis information. Your underdamped setup might last some time but it's no where near ideal.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:40 am

magner wrote: Saying a strut designed for a specific application will work with aftermarket springs is mis information. Your underdamped setup might last some time but it's no where near ideal.

I wouldn't call 70K miles "some" time, that's a pretty long life with those lowering springs. The oem struts will probably blow out in about 10K miles with a 1.8" drop. I had a 1.8" drop on my avenger with GR2 struts and after 50K miles they were working fine before the car go totaled.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:53 am

Donkeypuncher wrote:The oem struts will probably blow out in about 10K miles with a 1.8" drop.

Not true. I've had Sportlines on my stock struts since 2008, and have put about 40,000 miles on it. The roads out here aren't the best either, but I am careful with how I drive. I suppose that if you drive like a jackass and don't care for your cars suspension when you hit bumps and stuff, then yes they can have a very short life-span.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:57 pm

I'd bet money that your struts are trashed. You're probably used to it by now, but once you put new ones on you'll notice the difference.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:10 pm

Donkeypuncher wrote:I'd bet money that your struts are trashed. You're probably used to it by now, but once you put new ones on you'll notice the difference.

How can I check though? And they've felt the same as they always have. They're nice and stiff, no one side is sagging, I work at a shop and have visually inspected my struts just recently in the past month (while doing a tire rotation)... I'm not doubting your experience, but I'm also not sure that they're shot.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:26 pm

The bounce test is probably the easiest way to test the struts. You just push down on each corner of the car and try to work up the momentum to bounce it. If it stops bouncing on it's own in 1 or 2 strokes then the struts are still good. If it continues to bounce after you take your hands off, then they are blown.

Even the oem struts can last a good while if you treat your car right. Sounds like you drive smart, so they may still be in good condition. I think my oem ones lasted 20k on my avenger on eibach springs before they finally blew out. That was also using shitty springs that were a 2.3" drop, not ideal even for struts made for lowering springs.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:10 am

Donkeypuncher wrote:The bounce test is probably the easiest way to test the struts. You just push down on each corner of the car and try to work up the momentum to bounce it. If it stops bouncing on it's own in 1 or 2 strokes then the struts are still good. If it continues to bounce after you take your hands off, then they are blown.

Even the oem struts can last a good while if you treat your car right. Sounds like you drive smart, so they may still be in good condition. I think my oem ones lasted 20k on my avenger on eibach springs before they finally blew out. That was also using shitty springs that were a 2.3" drop, not ideal even for struts made for lowering springs.

Doing the "bounce test" shows that my struts are fine. Bounces nice and stiff and once I let off the car, it only travels downward once before settling. I've seen blown struts on the highway before, and mine do not do that lol. That crap scares me

Anyhow, I do sometime in the future want to get coilovers if I can afford them... if not, then new struts with springs (again). I know how to drive a lowered car, so I can ensure that my suspension lives to the fullest.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:32 am

Bounce? What is that?

OB · Post by OB » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:27 pm

2005.Neon.SXT wrote:
Donkeypuncher wrote:I'd bet money that your struts are trashed. You're probably used to it by now, but once you put new ones on you'll notice the difference.
How can I check though? And they've felt the same as they always have. They're nice and stiff, no one side is sagging, I work at a shop and have visually inspected my struts just recently in the past month (while doing a tire rotation)... I'm not doubting your experience, but I'm also not sure that they're shot.

A bad strut/shock isn't going to cause a change in ride height. On cars with the shock separate from the spring, you can take all four clean off and nothing will change. The spring determines ride height.

The best way to check them is to remove them, disassemble them, and check the full compression and rebound strokes by hand. A bad shock doesn't always leak, or fail the bounce test. There could be dead spots in the travel, weakness against compression, etc that cannot otherwise be checked.

While potholes and large bumps definitely don't help matters, there is very little a driver can do to prolong damper life. The oscillations of the springs is different with higher rates. This can overheat a shock not designed to dampen these specific oscillations. Tokico HP's, for example, are valved to damp a larger range of spring rates, including much higher ones than stock. Bottom line, the shocks are constantly dampening the spring's oscillations, not just when going over bumps felt in the cabin by the driver. They will cycle thousands of times over just a few miles.

I would bet that because the eibach springs are progressive, the oem struts aren't under constant stress, thus extending their potential lifespan. The oe struts are very durable and well made, so that certainly helps too.