P 1390

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:15 pm

Well, I got this code yesterday after I finished changing my timing belt, so I checked the timing, and it was just fine, but I re-did it anyways and this morning I gave it a test drive, and I got the code once again. Everything is in time still. I swapped the cam magnet in the same position to the Comp cam I put in there. Any ideas?

The car runs great

This is what I was told can also be a cause...

Camshaft's relative position not relearned after one of the following have been serviced: Camshaft, Camshaft sprocket, timing belt tension-er, cylinder head, head gasket, crankshaft sprocket, crankshaft cylinder block or the PCM.

Does the PCM have to get used to the Cam?

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:37 pm

Is the dowel pin on the cam gear and magnet intact? The mark on the timing cover may not be the most accurate thing either. For future reference, if the belt is still good when removed, make your own marks for the cam gear at TDC, so you know it is correct.

The magnet should only install one way regardless, if it is not broken.

As far as cam position, it only knows what the target magnet is telling it. There is no relearning that. Only the fuel/timing curves need adjusting. It has no way to know how the cam center line/duration and lift has changed. Other than it needs more fuel to keep it from going lean. With that code, the target magnet is off in some way.

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:15 pm

Yes the cam dowel is intact from what I can see. I swapped the magnet from the old cam, and tried putting in on in the original position. Is there any way to install it upside down?

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:58 pm

It will only go one way, the pins are offset. Did you torque the cam gear bolt down to spec? It is a bit of a pain to hold it and tighten it. 85 ft lbs, IIRC. If it is not tight enough, it will shear the pin, and wipe out valves. Thus why I asked about the pin. If it is half sheared, it could make the CPS think it is a tooth off.

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:39 pm

Yep I tightened it down right. I'm just going to do it all over again tonight, it would be alot easier if the underdrive pulley would come off and I could see the mark on the crank sprocket better. I can just see the outline of it from above.

Here's another question, when you have the crank half a notch from TDC, is it suppose to line up when you tension it down?

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:27 pm

You should set everything at the marks. Or at least so when you install the belt, you can turn the crank clockwise to take up the slack, and have the crank mark at TDC. As long as the cam and crank are correct, when the slack is gone (water pump side), then tightening up the tensioner side will not change it. If there is slack on the water pump side, then the tensioner will move the cam/crank to take up that slack. Then your timing will likely change.

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:07 am

Well I finished re-setting the timing belt again, and the cam mark is still about half a tooth from the mark on the inner timing cover. Do you think that is enough to set a code? Every time I tried putting the belt on while both notches were at their respective position, the belt would not seat properly, and so I had to do what the manual said and make the crank half a tooth from TDC. Well when I do this and put the belt on, it's still half a tooth from TDC, even after I've tensioned it and rotated the belt 2 revs. Is it suppose to always be half a tooth from TDC?

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:58 am

The crank, or the cam? I doubt the crank being 1/2 tooth off would do much. With the crank at TDC, the cam mark should be close to the cover mark. 1/2 off at the crank would only be 1/4 off at the cam. .

Here is the FSM procedure Note step 12:

INSTALLATION - TIMING BELT
(1) Set crankshaft sprocket to TDC by aligning the
sprocket with the arrow on the oil pump housing,
then back off to 3 notches before TDC (Fig. 161).
(3) Move crankshaft to 1/2 mark before TDC (Fig.
163) for belt installation. (this is shown as the first recess clockwise of the timing mark)
(2) Set camshaft to TDC by aligning mark on
sprocket with the arrow on the rear timing belt cover.
(4) Install the timing belt. Starting at the crankshaft,
go around the water pump sprocket, then
around the camshaft sprocket, and finally route the
back side of the timing belt around the timing belt
tensioner pulley.
(5) Move crankshaft sprocket to TDC to take up
belt slack.
(6) Insert a 6 mm Allen wrench into the hexagon
opening located on the top plate of the belt tensioner
pulley. Rotate the top plate COUNTERCLOCKWISE.
The tensioner pulley will move against the
belt and the tensioner setting notch will eventually
start to move clockwise. Watching the movement of
the setting notch, continue rotating the top plate
counterclockwise until the setting notch is aligned
with the spring tang (Fig. 164). Using the allen
wrench to prevent the top plate from moving, torque
the tensioner lock nut to 30 N·m (22 ft. lbs.). Setting
notch and spring tang should remain aligned after
lock nut is torqued.
(7) Remove allen wrench and torque wrench.
NOTE: Repositioning the crankshaft to the TDC
position must be done only during the CLOCKWISE
rotation movement. If TDC is missed, rotate a further
two revolutions until TDC is achieved. DO NOT
rotate crankshaft counterclockwise as this will
make verification of proper tensioner setting impossible.
(8 ) Rotate the crankshaft CLOCKWISE two complete
revolutions manually for seating of the belt,
until the crankshaft is repositioned at the TDC position.
Verify that the camshaft and crankshaft timing
marks are in proper position (Fig. 166).
(9) Check if the spring tang is within the tolerance
window (Fig. 165). If the spring tang is within the
tolerance window, the installation process is complete
and nothing further is required. If the spring tang is
not within the tolerance window, repeat Steps 6
through 8.
(10) Install front timing belt cover (Refer to 9 -
ENGINE/VALVE TIMING/TIMING BELT COVER(S)
- INSTALLATION).
(11) Install spark plugs (Refer to 8 - ELECTRICAL/
IGNITION CONTROL/SPARK PLUG - INSTALLATION).
(12) Perform camshaft and crankshaft timing
relearn procedure as follows:
² Connect the DRB IIIt scan tool to the data link
(diagnostic) connector. This connector is located in
the passenger compartment; at the lower edge of
instrument panel near the steering column.
² Turn the ignition switch on.
² Access “Engine” diagnostics.
² Select “Miscellaneous” option.
² Select “ReLearn Cam Crank” option and follow
directions on DRBIIIt screen

So I have learned something. The ReLearn might be an NGC thing. This is from the '04 FSM. I'll have to look in my '01 FSM later.

Interesting. I have never seen anyone have an issue with this.

Hopefully someone chimes in with a better option to reset it, if this is your problem, it would suck to have to take it to a dealer and pay $100 plus each time you do anything timing belt related.

Edit: have you tried disconnecting the battery, and turning on the lights/stepping on the brake and reconnecting it? I would think it would have to relearn this stuff on it's own from a battery change. Unless it stores the cam/crank info into hard memory.

That has to be the most retarded thing they have done.

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:31 pm

That's the part I don't understand, when I turn the crank back to TDC to remove the slack, it just pulls the cam back half a notch. It's like you cannot install the belt without having half a notch from TDC.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:56 pm

I would not put 100% faith in the cam mark in the timing cover. It is close, but not that accurate. The cover has too many variables in how it sits when attached. Unfortunately with it installed, you cannot measure from two equal points on the head to set the mark at center. (Straight up)

Possibly a small square would work to lay on the Valve Cover rail, and eyeball the cam mark to the square. This of course requires removing the VC tho. Which will undoubtedly create an oil leak if you don't replace the gasket.

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:17 pm

Well I've also noticed when I start up sometimes, there's a clacking noise coming from the timing belt area, like almost like the rocker arms or something but it usually goes away. I've done research on the noise and some say it's the tensioner but I've got all the bolts torqued down to spec. If only my computer wouldn't crash whenever I try to upload any video files, I'd film all of this!

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:27 pm

Do you have the hyd. tensioner?

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:39 pm

I installed a 04 Litens Tensioner. One thing I noticed is it does not spin nearly as freely as the original tensionor. Is that reason for worry? Like the original tensionor would spin 50 times before stopping, this one does it like 10-11 times. I'm sorry I ask so many questions Bill, I'm just trying to weed all the problems out of this car, and I dont want any more added to it because of my mistakes!

I still got the P1390 today after I started it up. After taking the mount plate off 3 times, I've become a pro at the routine of getting to the belt, it's just so time consuming.

I will say I did install a Comp 400 cam with Mag Springs. Would this cause any loud clacking noises?

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 pm

The new tensioner will not spin as freely, because the grease is still well packed, and new, so it is a bit stiffer.

The clacking noise could be the rockers. If any of the retainers/shoes fell off the lash adjusters you prolly would have a good racket going on in there. The retainers are little plastic pieces that are orange, or something like that. They hold the flat part that pivots between the lash adjuster and the valve stem. They do get brittle and break, letting the pivot fall off. Especially if you had them out to swap cams.

Or if the lash adjuster is just shot. Sadly, you must replace the rocker assy for either.

You did install the mag springs with the tighter coils to the bottom, right? It wouldn't make the noise, but will affect their performance,

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:41 pm

Earlier you said to turn the crank clock wise of TDC? I've been turning it counter clockwise to take the slack off the water pump side this whole time? Your suppose to loosen the slack on the tensionor side?

And yes I installed the mag springs like you mentioned, I remember another post somewhere were you mentioned that and I remembered to do that! Search helps!

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:53 pm

Turning the crank clockwise tightens up the water pump side. Normal rotation.
See step 7 above. You want all the slack on the tensioner side when adjusting it.

Edit:

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:00 pm

No I havent been turning the crank counter clockwise. I only did that when I set it 1/2 notch before TDC, and then set the belt in place. But when I turn the crank back to TDC, it cause the cam gear to rotate with it.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:12 pm

Maybe try moving the cam gear a little more counter clockwise, so when you take up the slack at the crank, it moves it to the mark? It is kind of a crap shoot guessing how much the belt is going to need to get the marks to line up, if you haven't done it before.

I had more problems with the 2.2 back in the day getting them lined up, but it gave me good practice. About every one I owned snapped a belt, because they were all high mileage cars. At least those don't do much other than leave you stranded. The heads self destructed on their own. Could be why I stayed away from 4 cyl's for a long time.

Notanexit92 · Post by **Notanexit92** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:31 pm

Hey Bill! I fixed it. I ended up having to retard the cam gear a little instead of advancing it like I had been. Thanks for all your help!