Magnum head swap PLUS (56K, lots of pics)

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quicksilvr
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Magnum head swap PLUS (56K, lots of pics)

Post by quicksilvr » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:16 pm

My dad and I finished everything yesterday evening. Here's the start to finish pics, and a little commentary on the interesting things.



Before (1/5/06)

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Magnum head, starting to take it apart. Not very pretty huh. It looks like the car it was on wasn't running the best, because the exhaust valves should be whitish-gray, instead of black.

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Valves, springs, retainers and keepers. That is the Magnum cam that was in the head, there in the backround.

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Ah, and the non-working actuator motor from my magnum intake manifold. This is what the inside looks like.

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Head and rocker arms

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Old valve seals off, new ones on.

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Cleaned up, and put back together, minus something kinda obvious....

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The reason there is one valve missing is because that valve was bent. Ack! When I took it apart, I went right from having the springs holding everything tight, to having the valves all the way out, so I didn't see that it wasn't sealing. When I dropped that valve in when re-installing them, it didn't seat....much to my alarm. Here is how bad it was...

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I obviously wasn't expecting this, so I ordered a new triple bead lock valve from MoparSuperCenter. But, because it didn't arrive in enough time, I robbed a single bead lock valve from my standard head. Important to note - obviously you have to use single bead lock keepers with a single bead lock valve....but you also have to use the standard retainer. We tryed to use the magnum spring AND retainer, but there is enough of difference in the retainers, that it was pretty obvious that the keepers were sitting differently with the Magnum retainer on. So, right now, I have a single bead lock valve, retainer and keepers in one slot, but still with the Magnum valve spring. And if you're wondering, a standard valve and Magnum valve are the same except for the bead locks. Magnum is triple, standard is single.



Here is the start of disassembly

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It took alot of grunting and "holding your mouth right" to get from the previous picture to this.....The engine mount plate is a pain, to put it nicely.

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Here was my next surprise. I ordered a 2004 timing belt tensioner to replace my original, assuming that the original looked like all the other 2000 model year tensioners I'd seen INCLUDING the one in my 2000 FSM. Ha! This is what was on my car...

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Anyway, good news is, the mounting holes are still in the same place, but you do have to do this (the round hole in the center) to the rear timing cover to get the tensioner to seat properly.

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Disassembled further

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My beautiful block and pistons. Wait...you mean they're not beautiful.....?? :lol:

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Head comparo on the exhaust side

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CompCams 200 in place

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Magnum head on!

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New water pump, tensioner and timing belt

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Pretty valve cover (that I painted myself) You might note that I DID NOT install my AEM adjustable cam gear. Here's why. We didn't have the time to degree the cam, nor the instruments to do it right. So, the cam gear was going to be set to 0. And to change the advance or retard, you have to take everything off again anyway. Ok, you think, but why not go ahead and put it on now. Well, here's why. Neither my dad or myself was impressed with the way the inner part of the cam gear can move side to side in the outer part. Meaning, unless you hold it just right when you tighten the bolts, the outer cog won't be centered on the inner piece. Meaning, relative to the cam, the gear would be running slightly out of round. Yes, yes I know it's not very much...but it was enough to make me just put the standard cam gear back on.

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Engine mount plate back on, and engine mounted up

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Header going on. Notice the scratches in the paint? Yeah, it doesn't exactly go in easy. Without two people working together, I don't think it would have even been possible to get it in. We put it in from below obviously.....because we weren't smart enough to think of sticking it in there when the head was off. #-o

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More header pics. It fit great once in place. (I did raise the heat shield up just a bit right there....you can see it hanging down where the flange is, and it needed some more clearance).

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Magnum intake manifold going on, and fuel rail business....

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We modified the drivers side intake manifold mount bracket to work on the mag intake. Just took some cutting and bending. (sorry the pic isn't clear...I had to hold the camera and guess)

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Homemade heat shield for coolant overflow. It's just a couple layers of tin foil shiny side out, held on with Ultra Black RTV sealant. Works great so far.

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Almost done

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Finished 8)

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Any questions, please feel free to ask here, or pm me. Oh yeah, and it runs great. When we first started it, the lifters were REAL loud. But they had drained down, because the head had been off for several months. After the first drive, they sounded normal. The exhaust sounds like butt now though.....no cat, just straight out through a high quality fart can that sounded great before. I'm going to get a bullet cat in the future, so we'll see how it sounds then. It's pretty sweet hearing the resonance and harmonics of the exhaust flowing through the header though....reminds me of my dads truck that had a built 318 with headers. 8)

I did get a CEL, P 0140. It actually just went away though on my last little jaunt to the grocery story. It'll probably come back. It means "neither rich nor lean mixture detected from 1/2 02 sensor" or something like that. Hrm...maybe it's because I don't have the downstream 02 sensor plugged in to the harness??? :lol:
Last edited by quicksilvr on Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Dave
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Post by OB » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:38 pm

youre my hero lol. absolutly awesome pics and info. U just taught me a whole lot about magnum shiz that ive been dyin to know. man ill tell ya im jealous. good job looks awesome too. wanna do mine next?
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Post by evlneon » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:59 pm

longester post evAr!! but a damn good one. thanks. :D

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Post by scneonchic » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:05 pm

looks AWESOME :D the step-by-step thing was a nice touch ;) lol

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Post by neonsxt0486 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:50 pm

Looks great! Whats the butt dyno say?
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Post by quicksilvr » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:14 am

Well, I haven't wired my intake manifold to open the secondaries yet. And the computer is still learning. I can spin the tires through first and into second. I can drop the hammer once I'm already rolling at a moderate speed in first or second and break them loose again. And at high speed (70-80) it's alot better. It doesn't feel crazy powerful or anything, but the speedo needle moves alot faster than it used to, and I can now make my head fall back a little if I goose it in 5th at like 75 mph. Used to be, at that speed, it was like "Huh....go more now? What?" I'd guess 25 hp difference....but I'm horrible at guessing. I need a 2.5" exhaust, the intake wired to be active, and a AFX ecu. I might end up staying N/A with this car forever...or I might change my mind. I'll try not to pull a Louie. ;)
Oh, and I also need to degree the cam. I will stay with this cam though, even though bigger would help up top. I like it's moves through the entire range. I'm actaully very happy with the cam. It's a got a smooooooth and linear power delivery.
Last edited by quicksilvr on Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Frizbe » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:11 am

hmmm... I hope the problems with the cam gear aren't my fault, if they are I'll tlak to you about your moneys.
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Post by quicksilvr » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:45 am

linkin18t wrote:hmmm... I hope the problems with the cam gear aren't my fault, if they are I'll tlak to you about your moneys.
Nope, not at all. I was just expecting better quality from AEM...since I'd heard that they made the best ones. The inner piece simply needs to fit more precisely in the outer ring. I'm planning on keeping the gear, for the time that the cam does get dialed in, and when I can have the car on a dyno.
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Post by fixitmattman » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:14 pm

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I had the same problem, I took that bracket out and welded up my own.

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Post by Kevin_GP » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:24 pm

You make the most informative posts, your fuel pump install helped me out so much. Although I will never swap heads I can see that they would be a pain to do. Great job btw

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Post by quicksilvr » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:40 pm

Yeah, the bracket is way too huge to work on the Magnum intake mani. It was so big and heavy, I kinda wanted to scrap it and make my own that was simpler and lighter, but decided that it bolts up so nice, I should just use it and modify it to work.




Thanks for the comment Kevin. I try to be as helpful as I can. 8)
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Post by Vernon » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:55 am

very nice. good to see you finally got the header on the car

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Post by Mopar00Neon » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:01 pm

I put a magnum intake on my car, and ditched that bracket all together. Been that way for about 2 years now with no problems. I dont see a real need for it, and youre right, it is a chunk of weight to throw away.
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Post by soul_sword34 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:06 pm

Nice. So does the head need magnum rockers? I'm going to get a new assembly anyways. Figure I better get magnum valves, keepers and retainers to handle my Magnum springs too. Great write up. Looks easy.
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Post by kc2005ptgt » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:52 pm

Looks awesome man! Just curious though, how come you went with the 200 and not the 400 cam? Isn't the 200 smaller than a magnum cam? Looks like a lot of work! Maybe you cam come to KC and help me install a #14 whenever I get it! ;)
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Post by quicksilvr » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:39 am

kc2002acr wrote:Looks awesome man! Just curious though, how come you went with the 200 and not the 400 cam? Isn't the 200 smaller than a magnum cam? Looks like a lot of work! Maybe you cam come to KC and help me install a #14 whenever I get it! ;)

The 200 isn't smaller than the mag cam, it's about the same size as far as overall lift goes, but the 200 opens faster, stays open a tad longer and closes faster than the mag. I had it, because I had bought it with plans of putting it in my standard head. I talked to a guy that had a 200 in his mag head, and he really liked it, said it was great for daily driving, and he liked it better than the mag cam. My car is a daily driver, and I really didn't want to deal with a huge cam that makes all it's power up high. Plus I didn't want to spend any more money on a new cam. There probably will come a day when I own a Crane 14, and see how that goes, but changing stuff around in my engine doesn't bother me...it's all just fun. 8) Nothing is set in stone.

And for sure, now that the other new guy from KC is on here, we got ourselves a regular little NW MO group! I'll have to come down for sure sometime. We could even meet at the plaza, drive Ward Parkway for a while....who knows. And if you ever want or need help, I'd be happy to make some time. 8) Just hollar!
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Post by quicksilvr » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:20 am

soul_sword34 wrote:Nice. So does the head need magnum rockers? I'm going to get a new assembly anyways. Figure I better get magnum valves, keepers and retainers to handle my Magnum springs too. Great write up. Looks easy.
To bring this back to the top... :lol:


No, either standard or magnum rockers work, they are they same as far as I know. They're definately the same size, etc, and as far as strength and design, they seem the same there too. That's makes me pretty sure that they are the same part number(s) even.
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Post by kc2005ptgt » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:30 pm

quicksilvr wrote:
kc2002acr wrote:Looks awesome man! Just curious though, how come you went with the 200 and not the 400 cam? Isn't the 200 smaller than a magnum cam? Looks like a lot of work! Maybe you cam come to KC and help me install a #14 whenever I get it! ;)

The 200 isn't smaller than the mag cam, it's about the same size as far as overall lift goes, but the 200 opens faster, stays open a tad longer and closes faster than the mag. I had it, because I had bought it with plans of putting it in my standard head. I talked to a guy that had a 200 in his mag head, and he really liked it, said it was great for daily driving, and he liked it better than the mag cam. My car is a daily driver, and I really didn't want to deal with a huge cam that makes all it's power up high. Plus I didn't want to spend any more money on a new cam. There probably will come a day when I own a Crane 14, and see how that goes, but changing stuff around in my engine doesn't bother me...it's all just fun. 8) Nothing is set in stone.

And for sure, now that the other new guy from KC is on here, we got ourselves a regular little NW MO group! I'll have to come down for sure sometime. We could even meet at the plaza, drive Ward Parkway for a while....who knows. And if you ever want or need help, I'd be happy to make some time. 8) Just hollar!
Whoops, ok, late response on my part here, but...

I will be getting a new cam if 1 of two things happens:
1) I find an excellent condition used one for 100
2) I graduate in two years, my warranty is up, and I have money once again :)

You know, on Fridays durring the warm whether down here on Barry Rd and North Oak, the ricers congregate at the KMart Parking lot, waiting for races! Who is the other KC dude? Haven't seen him yet.

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Post by silentneon01 » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:12 pm

man it looks like my timing belt may be a pita
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Post by pos_neontech » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:51 pm

Few questions, as i'm planning on doing this swap sometime soon as well...

1) Is the magnum fuel rail the same as any other 2.0?

2) Is there any different wiring that has to take place during this install?

3) Is there a difference in the magnum computers and the regular computers? Do you have to do anything with that?

4) how long would it take to do a swap?

5) how much did all this cost ya?

6) if the magnum 2.0 puts out 150hp, I would be gaining 20hp from doing this swap, correct?

7) is the ignition shit the same?
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Post by quicksilvr » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:48 am

pos_neontech wrote:Few questions, as i'm planning on doing this swap sometime soon as well...

1) Is the magnum fuel rail the same as any other 2.0?

Yes

2) Is there any different wiring that has to take place during this install?

No

3) Is there a difference in the magnum computers and the regular computers? Do you have to do anything with that?

Yes, there is a difference, but simply swapping the head has nothing to do with it...it's just a different hunk of metal on top.

4) how long would it take to do a swap?

Two days...about 13-14 hours total. In 25 degree temps.

5) how much did all this cost ya?

Head was $410 shipped. Sold the cam that was in it for $100. Total-$310 for a complete head.

6) if the magnum 2.0 puts out 150hp, I would be gaining 20hp from doing this swap, correct?

Wrong. Just a head swap will gain you maybe 5 hp. Meaning, if all you do is change the head and leave EVERYTHING else the same. If you use a bigger cam, magnum intake, better exhaust, yadda yadda....you will probably gain about 15-20 horsey's....all depending on what you do. All the aformentioned stuff simply provided more and better airflow through the engine, creating more power. Mag head....better flow. Bigger cam, more flow. Intake mani....more flow....you get the idea.

7) is the ignition shit the same?

Yes
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Post by alsey_seven » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:00 am

nice work
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Post by OB » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:10 am

Holy post res batman!

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Post by contagious18 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:12 am

woah talk about back from the dead
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Post by Mat00ES » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:17 am

haha was a good read though, first time I've seen it.
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Post by Cabbs » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:25 am

I'm glad this was brought back from the dead, very informative.

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Post by patiofurnituregt » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:38 am

Wow I wish I would have seen this last week...lol

You must have stock tranny mounts because with my agp tranny mount it didn't seem to want to flex as much as in your pictures!

and holy thread res...lol
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Post by theTeejmiester » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:52 am

i had not seen this thread either,but i am glad it was brought back to the top,a good read for sure :thumbup:
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Post by srtjesse » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:48 pm

wow man nice write up good job on the pix
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Post by jetas » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:34 am

:withstupid: all of them.. Good info, ive thought of doin this for a while but i wana go manual 1st
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