poping out of 5th gear...

NyNeon0813 · Post by **NyNeon0813** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:31 pm

so here's the deal, a while back my lower motor mount broke. I didn't get it fixed for a few months. towards the end of that time my tranny started poping out of 5th gear. At first it was once in a while, then it got to the point where I had to hold it in gear, but only for 5th. And this was after replacing the top and bottom motor mounts.. U think my tranny mount could be shot and that's what's causing the problem. Also I have center motor mount that needs to be put in. or could the internals have gotten messed up. any thoughts??

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:34 pm

Check your mounts, and also check the fluid level in the trans. There is a rubber plug behind the driver's side tire, at about 2 o'clock compared to the driver's side axle. With car on level ground, pull the plug. Fluid should be at the bottom of the hole. Low fluid can cause it to pop out of 5th. 5th gear (and reverse) synchronizer is the last in line to get oiled, and usually the 1st to go when run on low fluid. 3rd is usually next.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:21 am

Also check the shift cable bracket/cable connections. All that flopping around may have done some damage. Or worse, stretched a cable.

NyNeon0813 · Post by **NyNeon0813** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:41 am

Oh and I also put boogers in to try to help it, no luck. Im hoping its just a cable or connection and not the tranny. I priced how much it would be to have a tranny put in and they said 500$! How could I tell if the cable is stretched?

And the fluid is checked everyone I get an oil change

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:01 pm

$500 isn't bad if it includes the trans. I charge $1200 to rebuild/modify them.

If the cable is stretched, it'd likely do it in 1st and 3rd as well. When you shift into 1-3-5, it pulls on the cable that's attached to the shift selector. If it doesn't get all the way into gear where the synchro locks into gear, it'll pop out.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:29 pm

That is a good point.

But some gears, at least with mine, seem to be more tolerant of the shifter not being 100% where it should be. But then mine has a fair amount of miles, and make some strange noises occasionally.

NyNeon0813 · Post by **NyNeon0813** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:09 pm

The 500$ is labor only. I have to provide the tranny.

It only has problems with 5th, and when it is cold its grinds a little when putting it into 2nd. Other than that there's no sign of it wanting to pop out of any other gears.

Think the 5th gear synchro could be shot? If so I take its not a cheap fix?!

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:05 pm

How much mechanical skill do you have? The transaxle R & R isn't too bad, just a lot of steps. If you have a good jack, and good stands, you can raise the car, and remove it. Then you would only be out the cost of a replacement MTX. The clutch is much easier than the old school units. No struggling to get a pilot bearing to line up.

You may also want to remove the center console to double check nothing has some how fallen in there, and is keeping the shifter from moving completely into fifth. Granted, it is a long shot, but maybe worth it if it saves you some $/labor.

It prolly needs a good vacuuming beneath it anyways.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:27 pm

To get to the 5th synchro, the trans needs to come out, and the case split in half. Then you need to know what you are doing in there.

What fluid are you running?

LowNSlow · Post by **LowNSlow** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:23 pm

chipdogg wrote:To get to the 5th synchro, the trans needs to come out, and the case split in half. Then you need to know what you are doing in there.

What fluid are you running?

If it's your first time doing something like chip is saying... I highly recommend you find a local that is experienced with it and see if he will help you for food/beer. Shadow him and learn stuff along the way.

I'd imagine your local forum has some guys who are pretty savvy in that department.

NyNeon0813 · Post by **NyNeon0813** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:01 am

To be honest I don't even know what they have been putting on it. The oil change place filled it the last time. Ill have to ask next time i go.

As for my mechanical skills, I like to try to do what I can! Haha but with no garage and the colder weather I'm kind of limited at the time. But I'm sure if I read up on it I could do it. That's what I normally do. Have to pick up another haynes manual too, lost my old one.

So best bet is to find a used tranny to swap? I was reading up on the trannys that would swap and I like the 02+ pt, but whatever I can get for the cheapest will have to do for now. Even though I still get 30+ mpg without 5th gear!

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:06 am

They filled your trans too? Where do you take it? Don't assume someone at Jiffy Lube knows what to put in your trans. I'm pretty sure their "atf" is just a "universal" type fluid.

Do yourself a favor, change it yourself. It's easy. Get 3 qts of 5w-30 Mobil 1 synthetic HIGH MILEAGE engine oil, a funnel with a long thin neck at the bottom, and 3' of hose that'll fit over the end of the funnel.

Drain the trans, there is a drain plug under the passenger axle. 15mm wrench will do it.

Put drain plug back in. Pop the rubber plug out of the driver's side of the trans, the same one you pull to check the level. Stick the hose in it, attach other end to funnel. Pour in 2 quarts. For the 3rd one, pour it in slowly and watch for it to start running out of the hole. Once it does, put the plug in and clean up.

Should cost you no more than $25-30 total, and take maybe an hour.

LowNSlow · Post by **LowNSlow** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:28 am

Yea, no way I'd trust an oil change shop to change my transmission fluid.

The fluid change might make a huge difference..

I don't know how much a new 5 speed tranny (new used I mean) costs but for the cost of internal parts....plus you not knowing how to do it (not saying you can't learn but for the easiest method). I'd just pick up a used transmission and toss it in. That is super easy to do.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:44 am

LowNSlow wrote:Yea, no way I'd trust an oil change shop to change my transmission fluid.

The fluid change might make a huge difference..

I don't know how much a new 5 speed tranny (new used I mean) costs but for the cost of internal parts....plus you not knowing how to do it (not saying you can't learn but for the easiest method). I'd just pick up a used transmission and toss it in. That is super easy to do.

Internal parts are pricey, 1 blocker ring lists for $64.75 at Chrysler dealerships. You need 4, one for 3, 4, 5, and R. 1-2 is not servicable through chrysler, can only get the whole output shaft, which lists for close to a grand I think.

Bearings are like $20 each for the needle bearings under 3, 4, $10 for the one under 5. Output shaft bearing (the plastic caged one) is $58.

I rebuild them with parts I'm supplied by my partner Ed Peters, so I can get parts for less, including non serviced pieces, mainly the 1-2 synchronizer and the balls/springs in the synchronizers. Still expensive.

The special Miller tools to do it correctly cost me over $300, and I searched for about a year to find the best prices.

NyNeon0813 · Post by **NyNeon0813** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:05 pm

yea that's A LOT of money and I heard outs a pita to rebuild these trannys. Don't really have the time to put into it.

Thanks for the info to change the trans fluid. Well def do it myself from now on. Hopefully can do it this weekend.

But if out was already driven with low trans fluid for a while, the damage has already been done right?

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:07 pm

Possbily, best bet is to refill it with the proper fluid and see what it does. They aren't hard to rebuild, but they are definitely easy to screw up if you don't know what you are doing and don't have the proper tools. Several sets of snap ring pliers, bearing splitter, and a good press are also tools that are needed. You'd spend a good $700+ on the proper tools besides just the Miller tools.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:53 pm

One would hope they weren't putting ATF in an '01. IDK how compatible it is with the Mopar fluid.

NyNeon0813 · Post by **NyNeon0813** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:57 pm

After I change it I will let u guys kno what happens. Thank you for your help and advice! Really appreciate it

stairmaster3001 · Post by **stairmaster3001** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:04 pm

NyNeon0813 wrote:The 500$ is labor only. I have to provide the tranny.

It only has problems with 5th, and when it is cold its grinds a little when putting it into 2nd. Other than that there's no sign of it wanting to pop out of any other gears.

Think the 5th gear synchro could be shot? If so I take its not a cheap fix?!

my t850 does the 2nd gear crap on a cold start even after i swapped in newer trans internals. but if u have some mech skill pulling a trans really is all that hard just bag and tag and take pics if u need to and save urself 500 big ones ha. but for the popping out of 5th its most likely a worn synchronizer. my friends 240sx does that and its got 180k on the trans lol and his synchros are shot lol
dont rebuild the t350 it cost to much just go to a local junkyard and get one they are fairly cheap like id say for one under 50k miles it shouldnt be more than 250ish

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:05 pm

occasional demons wrote:One would hope they weren't putting ATF in an '01. IDK how compatible it is with the Mopar fluid.

I doubt it was anything special either. They buy oil by the barrel and don't have a huge variety, for obvious reasons.

I have no problem taking DD's or beaters to quick lubes, but only for oil changes. None of the other services are worth a damn IMO. Just an easy way for them to make money off lazy people.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:10 am

chipdogg wrote:Just an easy way for them to make money off lazy people.

That probably applies to a fair amount of people, but there are also a lot of them that simply don't know enough, because they were not brought up with the skills/knowledge.

But yeah, a lot of it is in their mind set, they don't want to learn how.

The way I look at it, if they are here, at least they are making an effort.

I still think basic maintenance should be part of a driving test. That little extra might make the roads a bit safer. But I doubt it, people don't follow basic traffic laws either...

/rant. A subject for another topic, I suppose.

NyNeon0813 · Post by **NyNeon0813** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:10 pm

Well I finally got around to changing the tranny fluid. Made a big difference in smoothness of shifting, but sadly it didn't do anything for my 5th.gear. But thanks for the advice!

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:38 pm

Bummer. Looks like it's too late for this one.