Car running like complete crap. No balls

skaterking411 · Post by **skaterking411** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:11 pm

Long story short my car has 95k on it now. It has lost any sort of balls it ever had. Really quite pathetic. I drive my girlfriends automatic focus and its like a breath of fresh air. So I'm going to go home this weekend and try to do as much as I can. It has just lost so much. When I floor it it does absolutely nothing. And when I'm under 2k rpms and gun it it makes a strange noise. I have cleaned the air filter put and I also replaced the cam sensor both on which have helped a little. Ive read that it could be the cat. So should i cut that out or gut it? And someone also said it could be the cam magnet. Also I read something about a knock sensor but not 100 percent sure what the symptoms are for that. But I think that may be the weird sound when I gun it. Thanks for any all advice!

nerox · Post by **nerox** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:19 pm

do you get the CEL come on?

Public Disturbance · Post by **Public Disturbance** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:39 pm

If you going to go threw the hassle of cutting your cat off get a long tube. It could be that its clogged and robbing you of power. Another thing to look at is at 95k your pretty close to a timing belt job it could have streched enough to skip a tooth or something. Might as well get the belt, water pump, tensioner replace if you go that route since your close to time anyway.

ThatKevin · Post by **ThatKevin** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:46 pm

solution: 2.4 swap!

skaterking411 · Post by **skaterking411** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:20 pm

I don't want to put the money into a lth. And I do plan on doing the timing belt soon. Still not sure what I want to do. I can never decide lol. Before I didn't want to do the timing belt because I just wanted to swap it. Now I kind of want to just fix it up and sell it.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:33 pm

With no CEl, it might be the cat. You could pull the o2 sensor out, and see if the exhaust is popping out of there really hard. I mean more than you would normally expect for an exhaust leak at idle. If it rev's better with just that out, then I would lean more towards the cat.

Gutting it is actually a bit harder than you would expect. The brick is pretty durable. It will need something to brace the downpipe against, a small sledge, and a decent pipe.

But that is the cheapest way to have a pipe that bolts right back in. And it looks normal, won't get you into trouble for missing the cat if you sell it.

Just don't fubar it pounding the snot out of it.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:04 pm

If you have anything other than a stock muffler it will sound like total ass too.

Public Disturbance · Post by **Public Disturbance** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:15 pm

Thats why he just goes longtube with 2.5" midpipe and 2.5" Camaro muffler sounds decent, gets cat out of the way and not only goes back to having "some balls" but they even drop a little more!

skaterking411 · Post by **skaterking411** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:59 pm

well i thought about just cutting the cat out and welding a straight pipe in its place. and i have a borla exhaust off a srt on it now. it doesnt sound bad until i floor it 2k or under then it just sounds strange.

Public Disturbance · Post by **Public Disturbance** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:26 pm

Thats bogging sounds like

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:52 pm

The problem with cutting the catalyst out, and selling it, (If you actually do) is the next owner can make you replace it, if they need to pass emissions. Anything that is missing is covered under EPA laws. If it is still there, but defective, you are not responsible.

So there are no codes?

Cam magnet is only bad if it is cracked. It isn't a wear item. It should work forever, as long as it is intact.

Knock sensor, prolly wouldn't affect anything, you would just hear it pinging. It would sound sort of like a diesel. IDK, is that is the sound you are hearing? I'm not sure if a knock sensor could fail the other way, and constantly cause the timing to be pulled.
I know on pre NGC, there is no code for an open knock sensor, as mine didn't set any when it came unplugged. It ran fine until I put 87 in it. Then I didn't push it hard enough to see how the performance was affected, because the spark knock was so damn loud.

It was more like a

holy shit moment.

skaterking411 · Post by **skaterking411** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:39 pm

yea i understand that. I didnt really think about it because we don't have emissions where I'm from. and it is pre NGC and There is a little "tick" I guess you would say.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:51 pm

A knock sensor not retarding timing would make more than a little tick at WOT under low RPM load. It is more like a very loud cracking sound. You would know something was wrong from sound alone.

The thing with a bad cat, is if it was plugged/getting there, it would get worse with more RPM, not just the lower range. And it wouldn't need to be WOT.

Did you just clean the air filter, or replace it? Is it a paper type, or K&N style?

Have you tried it without the filter?

sidepipe87 · Post by **sidepipe87** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:02 pm

maybe a dumb suggestion, but check your spark plugs... my car was running like complete shit and I ruled out plugs because they were less than a year old Champion Coppers. Turns out one of them cracked... replaced them and it runs like it did before for a total of about $8

srtjesse · Post by **srtjesse** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:20 pm

ThatKevin wrote:solution: 2.4 swap!

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:24 pm

I think, hopefully, a tune up is part of his weekend plans.

If the wires are original, it may not hurt to pick up a decent set from summit racing before you go home. They cost about the same as the sup par parts store ones.

skaterking411 · Post by **skaterking411** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:49 pm

its not a paper type but it was definately cleaned out. and the spark plugs are newer and I have checked them multiple times. I'm not sure if the wires are newer or not. Ill have to get a set.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:05 am

Do you have a multi meter? You could check the ohms of the wires. As short as they are, they shouldn't be more than ~5000 ohms of resistance. My Taylor Spiro pros are about 300 ohms.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:53 pm

I am having similar problems on our 2000 Neon.

It seems that there are a few things that I have read, that can contribute to or cause this 'issue'.

- Clogged cat convertor.
It seems that this is more of an issue on 2nd gens, than on 1st gens.

- Dragging rear brakes. ( this happened to mine )
Possible causes: Contamination in master cyl.reservoir; collapsing brake hose.

- Rear wheel bearings.
It seems that these can start to develop excessive 'drag'. I suspect that mine may have been toasted by the dragging rear brake.....

- Dirty throttle body. ( in the ID bore )
It seems that dirt in the T/B, affects airflow quite a bit.

- Spark plug tubes, allowing oil to leak.
This will foul up the spark plugs and cause misfiring. ( I had that issue, too.... on 3 of the four.)

Other folks have already mentioned changing spark plugs and spark plug wires, so I won't mention those again.

I'm curious to see what you might find.
Please keep us posted.

- Nick

skaterking411 · Post by **skaterking411** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:41 am

well i highly doubt it is the wheel bearings or the rear brakes. both have recently been replaced. i have a feeling its the cat. and in need of a tune up. maybe after a timing belt change and all that itll been good.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Timing belt change won't help performance, unless it has already skipped a tooth. (Which would make it run crappy)

Not that changing it wouldn't hurt, at that mileage, it is a plus if you want to sell. That way the buyer has one less tool to try to lower the price. (As long as you also change the WP and tensioner)

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:39 pm

Change your wires. My car felt dead over the last month, would tick around 3-4k rpm, while rolling into the throttle, but not at WOT, just didn't feel right at full throttle. New wires, problem solved.

Cleaning the map sensor never hurts since it tends to get filled with oil and crud, mostly from our crappy pcv design, that lets oil pool in the intake manifold.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:02 pm

The gap on the spark plugs could be off as well, mine had increased a good amount after 15k miles.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:59 pm

Just installed a new upstream o2 in mine. I figured with 178,000+ on the original, why not. It actually gained a bit of power. Now I just have to see if that is at the cost of fuel mileage.

It has me wondering how bad it has to get to set a code...