2000 2.4 swap starter wont turn when clutch pushed in?

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:18 pm

just did another 2.4 swap in a 2000 neon and starter wont engage when clutch is in. tried jumping starter but i have no spark. is there a fail safe if its not recognizing the clutch in? also i have a broken coolant temp sensor would that cause it?

im stuck i changed crank sensors and i checked timing. im getting fuel and i have no blown fuses. and it has 2.4 cams so the magnets ok. should i add mor grounds?

help!!!!

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:54 pm

replaced coolant temp sensor still nothing

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:27 pm

Check the brown wire coming from the pdc

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:33 pm

so the fuse box i followed the brown wire into there and it runs to the starter relay and looks fine. would that be the reason im not getting spark though?

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:47 pm

Sorry, didn't happen to read the not getting spark thing. The brown wire just gave me tons of trouble. Sounds to me like its probably a grounding issue

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:50 pm

i have the ground from the head to the strut tower and the ground from the starter bolt to the frame rail. what other ground would stop me from getting spark and no starter engagment with the clutch in. im not i went over everything

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:17 pm

My issue ended up being the pcm not grounding. Ill try to find the picture or link.

Edit:
Here's the link that was given to me it helped
viewtopic.php?t=46051

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:41 pm

Just to clarify, it cranks when you jumper to the starter, but not with the key?

Check to see if the ASD relay is kicking in, and the clutch pedal interlock switch is making contact.

Like gtxtreme19 said, if the PCM is not grounding, none of the relays will work, because the pcm grounds the relay coil to make it work.

If you remove the relay covers, (carefully with a small screwdriver) You can manually push them to engage the contacts without jumping any wires. I would almost bet that you can manually engage the ASD and starter relay, and it would fire. (With the exception of SKIM equipped cars)

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:30 pm

Yes it cranks when I jump the starter just not with the key. I spliced the clutch safety switch together. How would I go about checking the asd relay kicking in. I'm not all too familiar with electrical

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:30 pm

The ASD relay is in the PDC. Just pull the cover off of the relay, and have a helper see if it is engaging when the key is turned on. Check the contacts also.

Does the fuel pump run briefly at key on?

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:46 pm

yes fuel pump turns on

edit: ok so using the link gtxtreme19 gave me above i have power to pin 24 and when i jump 25 to 26 the starter cranks then i grounded 28 and i got power to pin 28. so if this link is correct my ecu is shot. correct me if im wrong? or could it still be asd? what pins would i jump for asd? and if it was asd my fuel pump woundnt turn on right?

so my conclusion is ecu!
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edit #2: i got it running by grounding out pin 28 but im throwing a code p1388 and i looked up that its for auto shut down relay. and its running really rough. could this be from the asd?

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:37 pm

Pin 24 is from the ignition start, so you should only be getting power there when the key is turned to start.

then i grounded 28 and i got power to pin 28.

I'm lost here.

i got it running by grounding out pin 28

Did you jumper a wire to ground, and reinstall the relay?

Grounding 28 is basically bypassing the PCM contol to lock out the starter. The PCM uses the signal from the clutch interlock, and other inputs to decide whether or not to let the starter engage.

This is why the clutch interlock is not in the starter relay circuit. It is it's own separate PCM input.

P1388

An open or shorted condition in the ASD relay circuit.

Either a wire is damaged, or the relay coil is bad. Have you tried the horn, to be sure it works, and swapped the relays? You could again try the horn to confirm/eliminate the relay.

Edit:
If the FP runs, then the ASD is getting power, provided the wiring is good.

Pin 36 is the common 12 volt supply for the injectors and coil.

Pins 35 and 34 are spliced together and are fed from fuse 21. These are your 12 volt + .

Pin 38 goes to the PCM controlled ground. 34 and 38 are the relay coil inputs pins 35 and 36 are switched by the relay.

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:26 pm

i wrapped a thin wire around the relay for pin 28 and grounded it to the firewall and it fired right up.

i swapped relays for asd and tried the horn with the asd relay and it worked so im uessing there is a short in the asd relay circuit im just lost where to look for the short. is there a common spot to look?

it idles a rough but theres power at throttle and when it comes back down to idle it stalls. im gonna check my timing see if its off a tooth or something.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:19 pm

Well if it is running, it is getting power to the injectors and coil in some way. With everything in the proper form, that would be through the ASD relay contacts.

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:14 pm

also when i start it up my speedo and tach go all the way to the needle and then come back alittle and stop and back a little and stop until it gets to o mph and 700 rpms. what does that mean?

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:18 pm

A cluster diagnostic on it's own usually means the battery voltage is getting too low during cranking.

dailyslammer · Post by **dailyslammer** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:18 pm

okay after ignoring this car for a whole week i finally decided to go at it this weekend and fix the timing and get it running to drive.

well now im getting a cylinder 3 misfire and i pulled the plug and was getting spark so i put it back in and then i unplug the fuel injector and the choppy idle did not change so i figure my injector wasnt firing so i pulled out the old meter and check it and its not getting any volts to the injector. then i tried running a jumper from the ecu to the injector clip thinking there was a short or broken wire somewhere and the car would just shut off after i jumped it. i check for volts at the ecu and im not getting a thing.

any ideas? i did some searching and the only thing people were saying was ecu failure.