E15....

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occasional demons
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E15....

Post by occasional demons » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:38 am

Contact Congress to Prevent E15 Fuel from Damaging Your Hobby!
Don't miss out! Add news@summitracing.com to your Contacts


Put the Brakes on Harmful E15 Gasoline!

Dear Fellow Enthusiast,

Once again, Summit Racing Equipment is reaching out to automotive enthusiasts to raise awareness about an issue that could directly affect your hobby.

Recently, the U.S. Court of Appeals dismissed a lawsuit which challenged the Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) authority to permit 15% ethanol (E15 content in gasoline for 2001 and newer model year cars and light trucks). Along with SEMA and its member companies, we oppose the use of E15 based on scientific evidence that it causes corrosion on incompatible parts—specifically aftermarket parts designed for performance vehicles like yours.

To protect your hobby, SEMA is seeking the passage of congressional legislation (H.R. 3199), which would prevent the EPA from permitting E15 sales until the National Academies has conducted a study on how E15 may impact gas-powered vehicles. With little time to address the bill before the fall elections, it's important that lawmakers hear from you. Without your help, E15 fuel may soon appear at a gas station near you!


We Urge You to Contact Your Members of Congress to Request Their Support for H.R. 3199…

Here are a Few Talking Points:
Ethanol increases water formation that can then create formic acid and corrode metals, plastics, and rubber. Older cars and certain high performance specialty parts are not constructed with corrosion-resistant materials or able to tolerate the higher temperatures at which E15 may burn.

The EPA has acknowledged the dangers and made it "illegal" to put E15 in pre-2001 vehicles. However, the EPA is willing to risk destruction of the vehicle/parts by relying solely on a gas pump label cautioning motorists not to misfuel their older vehicles. The EPA estimates that there are 74 million such vehicles in harm's way.

Many auto enthusiasts have complained for years about damage caused by E10, which is now in over 90% of gas sold in the U.S. For example, corrosion has time to damage the engine, fuel line, fuel tank, and exhaust systems when classic cars are infrequently driven. E15 increases the risk of corrosion by 50%.

The EPA permitted the sale of E15 before there was conclusive information with respect to materials compatibility, tailpipe emissions and fuel efficiency.

H.R. 3199 would stop the sale of E15 until the National Academies has conducted a study on how gasoline blended with 15-20% ethanol may impact gas-powered vehicles.

Hmmm, gas pump labels currently keep folks from pumping E85 and diesel into their tanks.


And letting the current fuel we have now sit in your tank for extended periods of time does no damage?

Very weak arguments.

If you have enough intelligence to own a high dollar street rod, I'm sure you will be bright enough to pump the correct fuel.

This is more about politics, than anything else.

We adapted to unleaded fuel with out too many issues, this is the same thing. I'm sure the aftermarket will step up, and offer compatible products, because the parts have been on oem cars since ~2001. That's 11 + years the oem has been doing it. If the aftermarket hasn't caught on by now, they have already failed IMHO.

/rant.
Bill
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Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
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JeffB#2
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Re: E15....

Post by JeffB#2 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:08 pm

occasional demons wrote:
If you have enough intelligence to own a high dollar street rod, I'm sure you will be bright enough to pump the correct fuel.
True. However, I've been thru places where every pump in town has that damn ethanol in it. I go out of my way to avoid that crap and sometimes it's not possible. I go WAY out of my way to not buy things made in China too and that's pretty frickin hard to do too.

Take away the bogus subsidies for ethanol. If a product or process can't stand on it's own and at least break even, there is a significant problem.
BoogerMan
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fixitmattman
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Post by fixitmattman » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Up here in Ontario E10 is amost the norm. I've got a lot of clicks with the original fuel system in my 2000 with no issues at all. I don't think it's as big of an issue as it sounds.

I think the E15 legistlation down there will be put on the back burner a few more years anyways otherwise heads will hang when corn prices sky rocket. Corn is already having a shitty year and prices are through the roof.
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Post by chipdogg » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:09 pm

Lots of people have run e85 in old Neons without any problems with anything rotting/rusting.
COME TO MY NEXT NEON MEET!!!

April 6th, 2013

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occasional demons
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Post by occasional demons » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:01 pm

Exactly. I have run it in my 99 XJ without issues. I would think after 13 years, something would have failed.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

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INVUJerry
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Post by INVUJerry » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:39 am

I can't find any e0 pumps by me :(.
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occasional demons
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Post by occasional demons » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:45 am

I think there a very few states that have pure gasoline. Most are E10.


Since Ohio has no laws regulating gasoline quality, perhaps ethanol is the best quality stuff available in Ohio. Sadness.

:lol:
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

Skitlz
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Post by Skitlz » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Yeah, several years ago it was still possible to get gas without corn oil... not anymore. I have yet to find a pump in years that isn't labeled to contain 10% ethanol. Er, in Illinois.
-Scott

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esteinmaier
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Post by esteinmaier » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:07 pm

Yea, it's better for octane, but worse for mpg and harder on rubber seals. The reality of it is that the low % added isn't enough to make the stock fuel demand exceed the stock fuel capability ranges, and it's not really rotting anything out unless your car is from the 70s. The only other issue is that it helps keep the varnish that standing gasoline creates to a minimum. If you have been running straight gas forever, there will be a significant layer of the varnish all over the inside of the tank, in the fuel lines, etc. and after a few tanks with some ethanol, it will start to break down and collect in fuel filters and injectors. So if you change things around, you may need to do some servicing after a thousand miles or so to ensure you're not screwing things up.
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fixitmattman
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Post by fixitmattman » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:21 pm

Skitlz wrote:Yeah, several years ago it was still possible to get gas without corn oil... not anymore. I have yet to find a pump in years that isn't labeled to contain 10% ethanol. Er, in Illinois.
For 87 yeah, not getting anything. Shell V-power is about the only stuff that I think is straight gasoline, at least in our area.
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Post by NickKo » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:09 am

Good discussion in this thread.
esteinmaier wrote: it's not really rotting anything out unless your car is from the 70s.
Ah, Yes.... Those wonderful 70's !! :|
That's when this whole Ethanol thing got started !!

This brings me to the point I want to make.

BACK in the 60's and 70's, most Carburated cars, ran too rich, on average.
By adding Ethanol to the fuel, it would help lean them out, for the purposes of improving air quality.

Fast forward 20-30 years later.
Carburators have been replaced with Fuel Injection..... Controlled by a processor.


Due to the advent of Electronic engine controls, and fuel injection, E10 is not really necessary, to improve air quality, since fuel mixtures are now controlled very efficiently, with today's technology.
E10 was justified to the public back in the 70's, in part, with the claim that this would help cut dependence on foreign fuel. HOWEVER, that claim is now Obsolete.
Just look at how most fuel injected cars, LOSE gas mileage, when running E10.

How is that helping "save" fuel ?? It may not be a net loss, but it sounds like a wash to me.


My conclusion is that the corn growers and the 'corn lobby' wants E10 (and now, E15?) to continue, to provide them a bigger 'market' for their product.

E10 made more sense back in the 70's. These days, however, it is unnecessary, and counter-productive, for today's environment.
BUT like most such 'industries', they simply won't allow themselves, to become obsolete. So, they have Congress and the EPA, create a dubious need & a market, via the legislative process.




I'm in the wrong business. :x
I should quit my job, and become a Lobbyist in D.C., then I will get to propose stoopid legislation and play golf all day, and get paid to blow g-y :gay: Congressmen, in order to get them to pass stoopid laws. :sike:


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
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