OMG, we are doomed.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:30 am

"When you have a fire in an aircraft, there's no place to go, exactly, there's no — and you can't find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don't open. I don't know why they don't do that. It's a real problem. So it's very dangerous." - Mitt Romney

Maybe Air Force One will accommodate his wishes.

Yep, Sara would have been the perfect running mate.

titansxt · Post by **titansxt** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:46 am

Mittens, you are an idiot.

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:49 am

I think that we're doomed with either candidate.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:53 am

Kinda my point Gramps, kinda my point.

Ron Paul, anyone?

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:55 am

Personal opinion- I think Ron Paul is be the best candidate but, of course, he doesn't stand a snowball's chance in h-e-doubletoothpicks.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:59 am

I would LMAO if Ryan's comment backfired on him, and everyone voted for Ron.

"But Mr. Ryan, you said if we voted for Ron Paul, Obama would win!, WTF happened?"

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:14 am

We have a hurt economy. Obama wants to be robin hood, and Romney wants to stay out of it and let the public try to figure it out. Neither side is going to work. The only way we are going to fix it is to have the skilled laborers accept the millions of vacant unskilled positions. But there's no incentive to do that now, since the free government money is better than the money of working and you don't have to work for that.

The democrat side will build an economy that isn't sustainable because there just isn't enough productivity to maintain the American lifestyle. The republican side will build an economy where the 1% is even further in the lead and the rest are further down.

I think the key is to maintain the progressive tax brackets, but take away the endless free government money. That's the only way we can lift up the people on the bottom but not discourage success.

If you follow Obama's path to the end, we become communists. If you follow Romney's path to the end, we become anarchists. Neither will work.

That being said, the immediate and near future issue is our credit card from China. The only way to keep up with the payments is to stop spending the money that we're using. Bailing out car companies and banks just softens the blow when we hit bottom, but adds decades to the pain afterward. We can't afford to police the world, whether it's the right thing to do or not. We can't afford to pay my neighbor to sit at home because he is "too good" to push a broom. Democrat or republican, we can all agree that borrowing money will eventually put us under, and it's just mathematics. The more money we borrow, the more interest we pay, and the more money we are wasting that could otherwise go to roads, schools, etc.

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:18 pm

I would like to do a lot of things but, having no money, I do without. The federal government needs to be the same way. End welfare now- if you don't want to work, you'll starve... but it won't be anyone's fault but your own. Stop supporting Communist China- pay off the federal debt and quit borrowing money. Enforce immigration laws and kick out those who don't deserve to be here (those who just snuck in and didn't follow the legal immigration pathway).

Gramps is finished lecturing now.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:36 pm

The only trouble with just cutting welfare, and any other kind of gov't assistance, is you will have millions of hungry ppl, that won't take long before they are hungry, homeless, and angry. If they would become organized, and they would, how will our gov't deal with that issue?

The only reason it continues, is they don't really know how they will handle it. Once they open fire on the american people, it is game over.

Even if they are all free loading bums, the backlash of someone's family member being killed by our own forces, on our own soil would be tremendous.

The sad truth is the money will continue for longer than anyone on the tax paying side wishes.

The only way to succeed is small gradual cuts, that don't affect enough ppl to scream loud enough, and since it won't affect the majority's daily life, no one will care.

After all, that's how they have been getting stuff over on us for years.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:51 pm

One thing that gets me is the attitude of people towards unions and how they "support" them. Especially being here in Wisconsin with Walker, and now the debacle at the end of the Packer game last night, one crazy liberal friend of mine on Facebook posted: "I honestly don't know how someone can be anto-union & still consider themself a Packers fan."

My dad is the same way, yet he just loves buying crap on ebay because it's cheaper. I told him that shit is made in China but he asked why he should pay more for the same thing? How can you say you "support" American jobs/unions and then refuse to buy stuff made in the USA because it costs more?

I'm not a huge fan of unions due to the fact that I work at several unionized places working on their forklifts. It baffles me to see how workers can do such little work and expect the high wages they receive. That and the fact that they feel they are automatically entitled to raises just because they show up for work, whether or not they deserve one. And the whole "It's not my job" idea, yet when I do something that is their job, I get chewed out or a grievance filed. I could go on about the stupid shit I see at some of these companies.

If I had my own company and I was forced to automatically give raises to people who didn't improve, don't care, and find ways to not do work, all while being nearly unfirable, I'd move my shit overseas too.

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:56 pm

We need unions to keep the employers that don't have to deal with them on the honest side.

My buddy works for a large corporation, that all of their facilities were union, except where he works. They began screwing employees out of vacation, benefits, etc. So when the next vote came around, that corporation became 100% union. You could say a lot of upper to mid management became unemployed within a month afterwards.

It only lasted one year, the conditions were restored to better than before, and the union got voted out.

While I am not pro union, there are still cases where they are needed.

But yeah, to be Union, and what it stands for, then go out and spend that union money on slave labor products is the ultimate.

He is your dad tho, got to love him.

It's like a couple folks I know that get food stamps, assistance with their house payment, etc. When the food stamps come, they go out, buy a bunch of steaks, and have a cook out, all the while bashing Obama.

I'm like what?

What are you gonna do when he isn't in office any longer?

It's those kind of ppl that make you root for Romney, let them take a ride in that airplane too.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:15 pm

occasional demons wrote:Kinda my point Gramps, kinda my point.

Ron Paul, anyone?

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:23 pm

occasional demons wrote: It's like a couple folks I know that get food stamps, assistance with their house payment, etc. When the food stamps come, they go out, buy a bunch of steaks, and have a cook out, all the while bashing Obama.

Bill - Where do I go, and How can I apply for these "free benefits" ??

The irony is, that these same folks will hate Romney if he wins.....
Hell, it doesn't matter who wins, they will hate them anyway. Just send them their 'free money' so they can continue to hate whomever 'The Man' is.

- Nick

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:48 am

NickKo wrote:Bill - Where do I go, and How can I apply for these "free benefits" ??

IDK, seems like some people can just wade through the river and, presto, "free benefits."

Back in 1980, I worked in a convenience store in a

ghetto

area. One day, a customer sent his two grade school-age sons into my store, each with a $1 food stamp. The two boys bought candy and then took the change back out to their father. After several trips in and out like this, with both boys having fresh $1 food stamps each trip, the father then came in and wanted to buy a pack of cigarettes with the change from the food stamp purchases. I refused to sell the cigarettes to him. He was enraged and yelled that I had to take his money. I told him that he obviously didn't need the food stamps if he was able to use them fraudulently to buy non-food items. At the time, I was selling plasma twice weekly for food money as the small salary I made at the store didn't go very far after rent, utilities, etc.

occasional demons wrote:The only way to succeed is small gradual cuts, that don't affect enough ppl to scream loud enough, and since it won't affect the majority's daily life, no one will care.

After all, that's how they have been getting stuff over on us for years.

If welfare can't be abolished all at once, the federal government could at least attempt to police the program to get rid of the waste and let those who really deserve the assistance get help.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:40 am

Midnight_Rider wrote:If welfare can't be abolished all at once, the federal government could at least attempt to police the program to get rid of the waste and let those who really deserve the assistance get help.

I don't remember if it was a Wisconsin thing or federal, but the whole thing about requiring a drug test to be allowed to receive welfare was being called unconstitutional. I'd like to see where in the constitution it says you:

A. Deserve free money from the government
B. Can't be drug tested to receive said free money

Shit, I gotta take a drug test to work, but it's unconstitutional to make you take one to get paid to NOT work? Looks more enticing every day to get fired, get paid to not work for almost 2 years, and work on the side and fuck off all day.

I bet if they cut unemployment benefits, more people would start taking jobs that they won't take now because they make almost as much or more on unemployment as they would working. I know lots of people with this attitude and it pisses me off.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:08 am

Midnight_Rider wrote:Back in 1980, I worked in a convenience store in a ghetto area. One day, a customer sent his two grade school-age sons into my store, each with a $1 food stamp. The two boys bought candy and then took the change back out to their father. After several trips in and out like this, with both boys having fresh $1 food stamps each trip, the father then came in and wanted to buy a pack of cigarettes with the change from the food stamp purchases. I refused to sell the cigarettes to him. He was enraged and yelled that I had to take his money. I told him that he obviously didn't need the food stamps if he was able to use them fraudulently to buy non-food items. At the time, I was selling plasma twice weekly for food money as the small salary I made at the store didn't go very far after rent, utilities, etc.

My dad built and ran a convenience store back in about the same time, closer to 84 though iirc. He had the exact same situaiton. The big thing in our area was penny candy (tootsie rolls, hard candies, etc) they would buy a quarter in penny candies each and then take the change out because of having to give actual change when the amount was under a dollar and then the dad would come in and by beer and cigarettes. Once my dad realized it, he refused in about the same way you did and pissed the guy off.

This shows the problem that still exists, people taking advantage of the system and skirting the requirements. There are people out there that truly need to the help and will use it appropriately, but it's the other 95% that abuse the system and cost the system a lot more money.

My opinion is that we need to completely revise the system. Pay someone however much they want (I say this because no matter the cost it would probably pay itself back in a year or two) to completely revise the system such that there are significantly more restrictions on what can actually be bought. There is no reason that you should be able to buy soda with an EBT card, there is no reason to buy premade stuff with an EBT card. These programs were designed to provide assistance to get people back on their feet but they have morphed well beyond that. The programs need to get back to the basics.

/soapbox

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:55 am

Shortly before I had started working at the convenience store, the rules about food stamps had been changed so that actual coinage would be given as change. Before that, chits (food stamp change) was your "change," not actual quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies. Just going back to that system would cut out a lot of the fraud.

Sorry for going way off-topic.

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:58 pm

It was Florida, IIRC on the drug testing. The biggest problem was/is that the testing cost more than the savings from rejected recipients.

So it is a losing battle.

The same for policing the system. It probably is too costly to pay the extra staff, and other expenses.

The real solution, tho Al Sharpton, or one of the other activists also referred to a slave labor, is to make those people do some kind of work to earn their benefits. I'm sure they can work as envelope stuffers at the least.

Last I checked, slave labor is being forced to work for little or no pay. I don't see the amount of benefits and pay these ppl receive as being inadequate for the jobs that need filled/are filled by illegals.
(who work hard, move from place to place for relatively nothing compared to welfare. )

Will we still be paying out, yeah, but we will get something out of it, and those that are truly parasites will move on to a real job. Or sell drugs on the corner...

David, I don't think this thread has a specific topic, other than ranting.

rOniN · Post by **rOniN** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:06 pm

hmmm....the windows open on everything I've flown in the military. And I usually land when there is a fire...I don't just sit there and let it burn up the engine, or in one case, the hydraulics. It's not gonna fix itself.

All we need to do is look back to Rome. History repeats itself. There are so many similarities it's uncanny.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:07 pm

occasional demons wrote:The real solution, tho Al Sharpton, or one of the other activists also referred to a slave labor, is to make those people do some kind of work to earn their benefits. I'm sure they can work as envelope stuffers at the least.

I've always thought about this as well, and it seems like a good idea, but then it'd basically be hiring people to work more government jobs. Which would still be better than letting them sit on their couch fucking off.

Lots of ditches to be cleaned up, stuff like that. Scrap the welfare system and just have lots of job openings for that. Don't turn down any applicants, but pay them minimum wage to do garbage work. Give them more hours if they have more kids. I'd be for more crappy government jobs and no welfare I suppose.

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:43 pm

since Ron Paul is out. There is always Gary Johnson.

Go to a flat tax with no write offs. This will lower all the tax rates and at the same time increase tax revenues like never before.

I agree, the welfare system has to be scrapped and people have to be put to work. Lower the min. wage a couple of dollars so more companies can afford to hire people.
And no more crappy grants for green companies or in CT's case just for companies to stay in our state. Giving our taxpayer's money away for bribes and programs that don't work won't get us anywhere. Let free markets take care of the system and let us grow.

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:04 am

Oh, but we can't expect Americans to do that kind of labor... just like Americans won't pick produce so, unless we have illegals, crops will just rot in the fields.

There is a quote I think I learned in grade school history that I often repeat but damned if I know who said it. Something to do with the Pilgrims (maybe Miles Standish?)- "He who will not work shall not eat." I doubt that out of work Americans during the Great Depression didn't think themselves slaves when the WPA gave them work to do. I recently viewed an amazing PBS documentary (Ken Burns?) about dam building out west during the 30's and had no idea that these great dams were the result of federal work projects.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:34 am

Midnight_Rider wrote:I recently viewed an amazing PBS documentary (Ken Burns?) about dam building out west during the 30's and had no idea that these great dams were the result of federal work projects.

From what I remember in history class, alot of the "New Deal" projects were very usefull thing like that. I know they tried doing some stuff recently, in Wisconsin it was "free" federal money to build a high speed rail from Madison to Milwaukee. What a joke, it take only an hour or so to get to Milwaukee from Madison as it is by car. If you take the rail and get to either town, now what? You saved maybe 30 minutes transit time, but had to wait for the rail, wait to get off, and then you are stuck in either city without a car.

I'm glad Walker cancelled that shit, was gonna be like $100 million per year to maintain it. But of course he "threw away jobs" so lots of people didn't like it. By that logic, if we just want more jobs, lets build some pyramids. Nobody said they had to be useful jobs.

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:17 am

they are doing a stupid project like that in our state too. only my Dem. gov. loves it. but its worse than high speed rail its converting old railways into a direct bus route from new britain to hartford. $600Million dollars getting thrown at this one. And the worse part. How many people do they expect to take this bus? Well they only have less than 80 parking spots at all the bus staitions. They estimate it will cost each CT resident an extra $3-5 dollars a year to maintain the route since it will never be self sufficent.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:27 am

That's basically what they had planned here and he cancelled it right away when he took office. What a waste of money, even if it "creates jobs". Like I said, let's just build some pyramids and hire people to dig holes, then hire another crew to fill them back in, and another crew to plant grass. That'll create jobs, right?

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:10 am

Midnight_Rider wrote: I doubt that out of work Americans during the Great Depression didn't think themselves slaves when the WPA gave them work to do. I recently viewed an amazing PBS documentary (Ken Burns?) about dam building out west during the 30's and had no idea that these great dams were the result of federal work projects.

Agreed !!

( and with Bill and Frank, too.)

People forget about the WPA, and that they did great things with it.

On my way to & from work, there is a local bridge on State Line Rd., which is marked, 'WPA 1941'. Still in use, all these years later.
I doubt that most of those folks in the WPA felt like 'slaves' at that time !! After all, they were getting compensated, and they were given something useful & productive to do.

But even back then, there were those few hard-core lazy folks, who didn't want to work...... OR those who were 'FUBR' and couldn't follow directions or instructions properly. They couldn't be 'fired', so the WPA would get stuck with idiots, sometimes.

I still think that the overall benefits to having a WPA-type program, outweigh the problems, however.
Perhaps they can bring it back, but under a different format...... Staff it with 'volunteers' who want to work.

- Nick

frankeneon · Post by **frankeneon** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:49 pm

The thing about people during the depression was they were willing to work. Half these people today would say that kind of work would be cruel and unusual punishment. People back then would load up all their possessions and drive wherever the jobs were. Today people would want us to pay for them to move. There are jobs out there people are unwilling to relocate.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:06 pm

Last week I was getting some parts to fix a Neon at O'Reillys. One of the guys I used to see all the time there but left for a different job was there. He was asked how his new job is going, and replied "Oh I'll be getting laid off soon."

The guy behind the counter told him they were hiring and he could have his job back and he replied "No thanks, I'll be collecting unemployment for 2 years and getting more than I can make here so I'm just gonna do that."

Sadly, I hear that all too often, and then alot of them take cash under the table and get rewarded for working the system.

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:11 am

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/i_team_8 ... anhandlers

We've had a real problem here in Indianapolis with people posing as "homeless" at freeway exits, begging for handouts. I see the same people at various locations around town so I'm sure that this is well-organized. One day last week, I used the same freeway exit twice in two hours. The first time, there was a sign-holding man who accepted money from two different vehicles while we were waiting out a red light. On the other side of the overpass, there was a woman holding a sign. When I came through the area later on that afternoon, the man and woman were on her side of the overpass and he was counting a thick stack of bills in his hand (like he was counting the money to give her part of it).

I just got a statement from the hospital with what I owe for my surgery and it looks like I'll be signing up for another loan for the next three years.

I will admit to humbling myself and forwarding my 2011 W-2s to their billing department (at their suggestion) in case I might qualify for financial aid. Boy, am I stupid... maybe I should just quit my job and beg on the freeway.

Sorry for the rant- I'm just pretty p***** off right now.

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:51 am

Yeah there have been similar reports around here about stuff like that. They can make much more money doing that than a real job, and not taxed.

My question is, where is their pride? Quit being a lazy fucking leach on society.