eh, help.. anybody..

moparguy04 · Post by **moparguy04** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:02 pm

I have an 04 SE with 32k.. I have done some search on here about the desiel sound motor when you first start the car.. and something about piston slap.. and that its some what common with the neons..... well.. when its cold outside even it is really loud.. but it goes awway after it warms up... but i can hear it when i go back into my house and its like 100ft away from the car from my porch and you can still hear it.. but tha is when its 27F outside.. and it did it when it was warm outside but is wasnt this loud. Should I have it taken to the dealership and see what they say about it? and after it warms up and all.. I can drive it and when I come up to a red light it feels like the car is missing really bad but no CEL is on. I did have it taken to the dealership about 4months ago and they changed the plugs and something with the transmission.. but it has done good, ran good and everything.. I put 3-4k on the plugs since they was put it. should I change the wires? I have 2 first gen and this is my first 2nd gen and my first new car to me. any help would be helpfull. just let you know I did search and couldnt find anything helpful...

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:56 pm

Sounds like piston slap for sure. My car has the worst case of it of any neon I've personally heard, so I'm familiar with it. The only thing you mentioned that my car DOESN'T do, is feel like it's missing. If it really feels that bad, like it's missing, I have two questions. What RPM does your car idle at? And, what viscosity and brand of oil do you use? Your plug wires could be changed, but I don't think that's it.

OB · Post by OB » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:54 pm

quicksilvr wrote:Sounds like piston slap for sure. My car has the worst case of it of any neon I've personally heard, so I'm familiar with it. The only thing you mentioned that my car DOESN'T do, is feel like it's missing. If it really feels that bad, like it's missing, I have two questions. What RPM does your car idle at? And, what viscosity and brand of oil do you use? Your plug wires could be changed, but I don't think that's it.

um.. missing WHAT? MISfiring?

my car does that too, everytime i start the cold motor. its just valvetrain noise and ive heard that lower weight oil (5w20) can make the motor noisier on start up. the 05 neon is suggested to run on w20 instead of 30, so mine is pretty noisy. I also removed the sound damp material under the hood so that dont help any haha.

moparguy04 · Post by **moparguy04** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:49 pm

yeah you can say it is missfiring.. I dont know what my rpms are since I dont have a tac but the paper i got when it was inspected was about 800rpms.. i have to double check on that.. i use 10 w30 castrol gtx i think, i have to double check that out too, since i am at work cant help much but I check it when I get home though.. i'll have to dig all these papers outt my car and tell ya. the right information.. plus, I only drive it on the weekends or my other car is down or something or going on vacation, not sure if that has soemthin to do with it either..

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:52 pm

orangeblastsxt wrote:
quicksilvr wrote:Sounds like piston slap for sure. My car has the worst case of it of any neon I've personally heard, so I'm familiar with it. The only thing you mentioned that my car DOESN'T do, is feel like it's missing. If it really feels that bad, like it's missing, I have two questions. What RPM does your car idle at? And, what viscosity and brand of oil do you use? Your plug wires could be changed, but I don't think that's it.
um.. missing WHAT? MISfiring?

my car does that too, everytime i start the cold motor. its just valvetrain noise and ive heard that lower weight oil (5w20) can make the motor noisier on start up. the 05 neon is suggested to run on w20 instead of 30, so mine is pretty noisy. I also removed the sound damp material under the hood so that dont help any haha.

Um..."missing", when used to refer to the way a car runs, ALWAYS means that a complete combustion event is NOT occuring in one or more cylinders. It could be from no spark, no air, or no fuel.

Moparguy04, what you described as diesel sounding is most definately piston slap, and not simply valvetrain noise. When it's really cold, if you are using a heavy weight oil, the car will run pretty lumpy, giving it that feeling of missing. Lighter weight oil on the other hand, will help that a little, but possibly not eliminate it all together. And you did say that even when the car is fully warm, when you come to complete stop, it doesn't run smoothly? Thanks for verification, and any other expounding you can do.

EDIT: You posted when I was typing this.

I would say that two things are ganging up on you here. You use Castrol 10w30, and the car doesn't get driven much. I would bet $20 that if you drive the car regularly, on the highway and everthing, that the lumpy idle and "misfire" situation will go away. Also, I would use a different engine oil personally, but that's just me, and you might have a loyalty to Castrol.

moparguy04 · Post by **moparguy04** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:05 pm

hahah no im not loyal to cartrol, its somethin I thought I would try out and see how things go.. I use havoline 10w30 in my other neons with the fram filter... I use them in my other cars because my dad told me to use them because he has had no peoblems out of them two.. but what would you suggest on me using? I get my oil changed every 3months if I only drove like 1500miles.. and the only reason I dont drive it much is that i have a warrnty on for 8yrs/1ook on it and im tryin to make it last for awhile.. untill its payed for.. anyways..

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:13 pm

Ok, good, no brand loyalty.

If you aren't wanting to use synthetic (I don't) I would recommend Valvoline 5w30 in the winter time, and 10w30 in the summer. I would also go with a filter other than Fram (check out the oil filter comparo that is "stickied" somewhere here on 2gn.org) I use Purolator filters on my car. And wow, only 1500 miles on some oil changes isn't much at all. Clean oil never hurt anyone though.

Next time you get it changed, go with Valvoline 5w30 and a Purolator filter. And maybe try to drive it just a bit more. That might get rid of your lumpy probs, but it won't do anything about the piston slap. Sorry, that is there to stay.

moparguy04 · Post by **moparguy04** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:38 pm

i have to tri that out when the next oil change is due.. and i have to see if they have that oil filter too.. i give the right info for the oil and stuff when i get outta this place ..

OB · Post by OB » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:09 pm

if you can afford it run full synthetic oil. either way mobil 1 is the way to go. 5w year around, unless it gets REALLY cold where u are, maaaybe go to 10, but i wouldnt recommend swaying from the manuf. suggestions as it could hurt your warranty.

moparguy04 · Post by **moparguy04** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:46 pm

I have to change the type of oil I use and the filter too just to see how things are.. and I checked and I did use the castro gtx and it idle at 772rmps when it was inspected a year ago.. I need to get a cluster with a tac.. that is what i want but I know the mileage isnt goin to be right or somethin like tht since i cant be switched over.. that i read of anyways.. this motor in the 04 is louder then the motor in my 95 and it has 200k on it but it was rebuilt.. and has like 500miles on it.. motor is actin up and just havnt had time to fool with it.. but thanks for ya'lls help though!!

silentneon01 · Post by **silentneon01** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:02 pm

I've had the "misfire" for months and couldn't figure out what it was. After a cleaning found it to be the plug wires

sullygully · Post by **sullygully** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:48 pm

orangeblastsxt wrote:if you can afford it run full synthetic oil. either way mobil 1 is the way to go. 5w year around, unless it gets REALLY cold where u are, maaaybe go to 10, but i wouldnt recommend swaying from the manuf. suggestions as it could hurt your warranty.

Ok, kids, its time for class. Welcome to OIL 101.

for 2001 and newer gasoline engines, first make sure you are using "API SERVICE SL"oil, 2000 and older use "API SERVICE SJ" oil. now that that is out of the way, lets continue...

Multigrade oils such as SAE 5w30 and 10w30 are widely used because, under all but extremely hot and cold conditions, they are thin enough to flow at low temperatures, and thick enough to preform satisfactorily at high temperatures. The differnce between the two is very minimal.

So, when Orangeblastsxt says 10 is better then 5 in the cold, please ignore him.

So heres an example:
1) If your winter temps stay about 32F, then use 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40, 20w50.
2) If your winter temps reach lows of 0F, but no lower, then 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 10w40
2) If winter temps go below 0F, then use 5w20, 0w30, 5w30

In conclusion, just use the oil that your your owners manual suggests(5w30 for winter, 10w30 for summer). Simple stuff here kids.

And if you're under warranty, and you are having problems, such as exessive piston slap, for the love of god take it to the dealer before you do anything, and have them fix it for free.

teamliviD · Post by **teamliviD** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:56 am

AMEN!

rice_eater · Post by **rice_eater** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:21 am

orangeblastsxt wrote:if you can afford it run full synthetic oil. either way mobil 1 is the way to go. 5w year around, unless it gets REALLY cold where u are, maaaybe go to 10, but i wouldnt recommend swaying from the manuf. suggestions as it could hurt your warranty.

there is no 5w20 in synthetic so my dealer puts 5W30 or 10W30 depending if we have a big cold snap or not

sullygully · Post by **sullygully** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:07 pm

^how come you have the dealer do it? Is it a warranty thing?

Post by **racer12306** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:02 pm

there is 5w20 synthetic. mobil 1, pennzoil platnum, castrol syntec, maybe a few others.

thank you sully. i damn near smacked my head when i saw what OB posted about oil weights. i hate it when people post bad information.

and can we stop the mobil 1 is the best bs. it is good. but i would not say it is the best. and before anyone jumps on my case, im not going to say amsoil is the best either. its all in what you are trying to do. ie, i am living a ways from my parents house (where i do all maintenace) and i want to extend my intervals so that i dont have to go there as often. therefore i am going to use amsoil and change it every 15000 miles. if i didnt worry about the extended drains i would go with one of the off the shelve synthetic oils, syntec 0w30, M1, pennzoil platnum, etc. dont get me wrong the amsoil protects great as shown in a number of tests and past customer experiences.

the M1 is ok, but i am using syntec 0w30 in my car now and it really likes it. and it is on sale at autozone regularly so it is $4/qt. the platnum is appearing to be an excellant oil. i have used it an it performed well. if i can find it in 5w40 i would like to try it out before i switch to amsoil. but i might switch to amsoil on the next oil change in 2000 miles.

OB · Post by OB » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:50 pm

I was indeed wrong about the 10, that was something I read somewhere else on here and it was incorrect, i just repeated it. notice i didnt recommend it due to the fact that i didnt know it to be a good idea from personal experience. next time ill be sure to write a disclaimer that im simply passing on what i heard.

I run 5w20 mobil 1 full syn year around. Just seems to me that thinner oil would produce more engine sound in a cold start situation. I also think that the valvetrain is the main noise-maker when the car is started. Dont quote me on anything just my 2 cents.

Having removed the sound dampening material from under my hood and combined with the exhaust, my car sounds like a 747 when i start it in the morning. nothing to worry about, neons just have noisy motors.

you guys sure get pissy about incorrect oil info. someone should yell at rice eater now for saying there isnt 5w20 full syn. jk

Post by **racer12306** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:46 pm

who told you about the 5w and 10w oils, ill go get my gun and take care of him/her.

quicksilvr · Post by **quicksilvr** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:23 pm

racer12306 wrote:who told you about the 5w and 10w oils, ill go get my gun and take care of him/her.

OB · Post by OB » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:21 pm

actually i think it was in a discussion on 2gn on syn oil. couple people said that believe it or not. oils just oil to me, big effin deal.

hint for oil-question people: use the oil suggested my manuf/manual year around. period. synthetic oil is good too as long as the weight and visc of the oil is same. ta da!

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:47 pm

orangeblastsxt wrote:
you guys sure get pissy about incorrect oil info. someone should yell at rice eater now for saying there isnt 5w20 full syn. jk

well..you see what happens when someone tells something they think was right , and then someone else repeats it and has to be corrected.

what if someone beleived that, even if it is something as simple as oil? could be something bigger one day

I run 10w30 mobil 1 full synthetic all year long in my blue neon, going to switch over to it w/ the almond car next oil change.

I dont think I could go 15,000 miles and not change oil, but I suppose thats better for people that drive a whole lot. I dont put anywhere near that many miles on my car, so of course that wouldnt make sense to me

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:26 am

moparguy04
1 - TSB#18-024-04 for idle fluctuation or CEL's w/ p0300-p0304
2 - TSB#18-025-04 PCM flash also for idle problems, cold starts, and RPM bump's with A/C on...
Those posted above only apply to 04's built on or before june of 04
3 - As for the piston slap, go to the dealer and play dumb. They might replace your short block under warranty. Take it into the dealership and complaign of a knocking noise when the car is cold. Tell them it kinda sounds like a diesel.
Also, make sure you have records of all maintanence done on the car otherwise they can be pricks and void your warranty due to the fact of no maintanence...or atleast lack of proof you do maintain it..
As for the shortblock, there was a topic here before about it.....BRB...

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=52 ... iston+slap

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=16 ... ht=ticking

moparguy04 · Post by **moparguy04** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:41 am

ah thanks blackrose.. when i first got the car I took it to the dealer and did a some point check on it and and did some maintanence on it then and I have my papers for oil change too.. so thats what i have to do..

thanks to you all for helping me..

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:14 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:moparguy04
1 - TSB#18-024-04 for idle fluctuation or CEL's w/ p0300-p0304
2 - TSB#18-025-04 PCM flash also for idle problems, cold starts, and RPM bump's with A/C on...
Those posted above only apply to 04's built on or before june of 04
3 - As for the piston slap, go to the dealer and play dumb. They might replace your short block under warranty. Take it into the dealership and complaign of a knocking noise when the car is cold. Tell them it kinda sounds like a diesel.
Also, make sure you have records of all maintanence done on the car otherwise they can be pricks and void your warranty due to the fact of no maintanence...or atleast lack of proof you do maintain it..
As for the shortblock, there was a topic here before about it.....BRB...

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=52 ... iston+slap

http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=16 ... ht=ticking

my 04 was built aug 03, should i get these taken care of on mine. i havent noticed any problems.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:37 pm

flashupdates on a car are like firmware updates on a pc.....
you might not benefit from it, but there was enough complaignt's to issue a new program, or reflash....