My senior thesis topic.

Frizbe · Post by **Frizbe** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:28 am

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NCyMkB0uMeg
this is exactly the bullshit I am trying to prove is discrimination in my thesis.
Please discuss.

Steaks · Post by **Steaks** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:48 am

well considering I have no laws like that in MN, well we have a few but not like they have in other states. I cannot comment to much but the truth is yes if a vehicle is modded the most likely they are racing. Somewhere! now where that is? It could be street or track OR BOTH.

I undersatand them wanting to reduce street racing cause it is illegal and that they are against modifying a car but then what would be the fun in that . I mean car modifiing is a BILLION dollar inustry. I know for a fact that awhile back they worked on getting a lot of modded cars in MN here and I was pissed to hear that the story said that a lot of the engines in the cars don't match up with the body cause they buy stolen engines.

The truth is we get a bad rep cause they think we are all about putting money down on races and doing A SHIT LOAD of illegal stuff.

Sorry I am not happy with how I get treated by the cops, but I do mod my car and I know by doing that I will get BOTH positive and negative reactions to it.

joelrgr · Post by **joelrgr** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:29 am

Plain and simple dont illegally modify if you dont want to get caught. They cant bust you for something you didnt do. If you want to look like a race car, then expect to get treated like you're one. Race cars dont belong on the street. Luckily im in MI, we have no testing of any kind for our vehicles. But we can still be stopped if they think something is up. Ive been stopped for my exhaust a few times already, im completely legal, but its very loud and so i expect to get stopped from time to time for it lol I explain the deal to them with it, they can inspect if they feel they need to, but its all legal here so they cant do anything besides tell me to drive more quietly if i can thru town.

Paralyzer · Post by **Paralyzer** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:30 am

That is crap right there. If he was not doing anything wrong to provoke them to pull him over. But if not they legally can not pull him over. They can not legally impound teh car or arrest him. He mentioned the rules from his attorney and they still arrested him on the spot. They could get in serious trouble for that!. I have a friend that is studying California law and when he saw this he said that it was illegal actions. But he did say that the cops there are dicks anyhow and hate to be proved wrong....but yet, what PD doesn't!. He used to be a cop himself and worked for the TBI and FBI. also worked as a jailor and presidental security. So he does know his stuff. I just think that the video is full of BS and was publish just to scare street racers. But don't let it bother you!

J8t4m · Post by **J8t4m** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:53 am

They can stop you for damn near anything . . . (all they have to do is make something up)

Ive been stoped for nothing before . . .
The cops always say something like "you were swerving" - Well I wasnt - But theres no proof that i wasnt . . .

Luckily in indiana the laws are pretty lax -

But lets face it - Discrimination is everywhere - it will ALWAYS be everywhere - espeically from people with authority (such as cops) - the more "fast" you look - the quicker they pull you over

The younger you are the quicker they pull you over . . .

Ive heard these same complaints from people with top end cars as well (vipers - vettes . . .etc . . etc . . ) I was talking to a guy with a viper at a movie theater once - Hes gotten 3 tickets for 5 mph over . . .

Ive got a friend who gets pulled over alot on his street bike . . .

I would still rather live in america with gung-ho cops than live in a place like china where the cops kill you . . .

Im still thinking that the Video is mostly BS

Frizbe · Post by **Frizbe** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:43 pm

Steaks wrote:well considering I have no laws like that in MN, well we have a few but not like they have in other states. I cannot comment to much but the truth is yes if a vehicle is modded the most likely they are racing. Somewhere! now where that is? It could be street or track OR BOTH.

I undersatand them wanting to reduce street racing cause it is illegal and that they are against modifying a car but then what would be the fun in that . I mean car modifiing is a BILLION dollar inustry. I know for a fact that awhile back they worked on getting a lot of modded cars in MN here and I was pissed to hear that the story said that a lot of the engines in the cars don't match up with the body cause they buy stolen engines.

The truth is we get a bad rep cause they think we are all about putting money down on races and doing A SHIT LOAD of illegal stuff.

Sorry I am not happy with how I get treated by the cops, but I do mod my car and I know by doing that I will get BOTH positive and negative reactions to it.

I completely agree with one of the points in your post, but I'm to lazy to deleat the rest.

Anyway, my thesis is that some of these laws are beging to make it legal for the cops to discriminate agnaist enthusiats. I don't belive it is fair for someone like myself to be targeted in plain daylight as a street racer. I never once went to the illegals, I might be guilty of exhibition of speed but 60 in a 40 is something to be pulled over for, not how loud my exhaust is.
There is a law in Abq, that states any type of exhaust modification is illegal due to the, and I quote, "Immeasurable loos of life and property damage it has caused." Exhaust NOISE?! causing death?!
Give me a fucking break!!!!!

/vent

OB · Post by OB » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:01 pm

since were doing opinions on laws here, i have a few that id like to discuss:

why can a v8 mustang/camaro etc. have super loud exhaust when we arent allowed to have anything over 95db?

why can ANY truck/SUV have a modified exhaust (I see silverados and the like ALL DAY w/loud pipes)?

why are ANY motorcycles (especially harleys) allowed to drive on the road, when their exhausts are SO LOUD they can probably cause accidents (sarcasm, but you get the point)?

In CA the law states that ANY modded exhaust system is illegal (according to CHP.org). if thats the case, why is there ALSO a Db level law?

i could go all day, but i have to go back to work.

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:39 pm

^good point about the exhaust on bikes, trucks, and stangs/camaros....they never get tickets and I see them all the time around here too

Praesepe559 · Post by **Praesepe559** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:22 pm

the main concept you are dealing with here is called "profiling." i dont know about the rest of the county, but in CA its a big deal and cops can already (supposedly) be repremanded for doing it.

just because "person type x" is statistically found to commit "crime type y", does not give the police any right to assume that a "person x" on the street could possible have/will committ "crime y". its hard to prove that profiling took place, but people have done it.

just because your car looks like the type of cars that are known to illegally race etc., gives them no right whatsoever to assume that you could be up to the same things.

locally, a public group came in to town with the intent to follow police around and video tape them with the intent to catch cops profiling. of course the police dept. came up with some crazy excuses that those people are obstructing justice by not letting cops do their jobs freely. if they are doing nothing wrong, why would they have anything against people secretly videotaping them?!?!

Paralyzer · Post by **Paralyzer** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:28 am

if they are doing nothing wrong, why would they have anything against people secretly videotaping them?!?!

Exactly! That just shows that they are doing what they aren't suppose to do! The dang pigs!.

.....I think I smell Bacon.....

J8t4m · Post by **J8t4m** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:40 am

orangeblastsxt wrote:since were doing opinions on laws here, i have a few that id like to discuss:

why can a v8 mustang/camaro etc. have super loud exhaust when we arent allowed to have anything over 95db?

why can ANY truck/SUV have a modified exhaust (I see silverados and the like ALL DAY w/loud pipes)?

why are ANY motorcycles (especially harleys) allowed to drive on the road, when their exhausts are SO LOUD they can probably cause accidents (sarcasm, but you get the point)?

In CA the law states that ANY modded exhaust system is illegal (according to CHP.org). if thats the case, why is there ALSO a Db level law?

i could go all day, but i have to go back to work.

Most of the vehicles fall into a different class (if im not mistaken)

especially the bikes

Bikes are small - You cant have 10 feet of piping to muffle that down . . . .
Not to mention - An engine thats smaller than 1 liter (600+ CC's) are going to generate high frequency's

It seems reasonable (to an extent) to not expect a 5.0 v8 to be as quiet as our little 2.0 4 bangers . . . .

Im by no means saying that profiling doesnt happen - and im not trying to stick up for some of the stupid laws in place - But I just dont think those are very good comparisons . . .

I dont live in cali. so I dont know all the laws . . . Im just thinking out loud more or less. . . .

===============

It really all boils down to money . . . basically - Here in america - You break the law and you pay money -
So basically (to an extent) the rich can "afford" to break laws . . . you know what im saying ?
I know theres a limit - yeah - you cant get 20 speeding ticket in a year and still have your license . . .I understand that - But money basically means you can break the law . . . .

caustic neon · Post by **caustic neon** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:44 am

hold on a sec. isn't that a well known show on fox called cops? i think they just dont want any bad puplicity since (the cops on cops) dont have a prob with it. and cops suck. In Frederick Md where i work the local cops have ben known to cause accadents doing dangerous U turns and outher manovers just to catch a guy who was going like 5 over. I had one fallow me for 9 miles just to pull me over for a headlight out.

J8t4m · Post by **J8t4m** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:01 am

^^^ LoL - Ive had similar incidents

My running tally right now (times being pulled over) is at 19 . . .you know how many of those were b/c I was speeding ? 3 . . . yea - 3 out of 19 - The remaing 16 - were for nothing -
Ive got 2 tickets and one warning . . .

I understand how frustrating profiling is . . . Its not so bad now that im alittle older - and my wife rides with me alot . . .

But I dont nesecairly completely 100% disagree against profiling . . .I think theres a time and place for it . . .
You cant just assume everyone is always out to do right . . . I know alot of you will probably wanna flame me . . .
But theres been alot of drugs cleaned up around here just by routine stops - stopping suspicious looking people . . .

They actually caught a guy who was literally on his way to murder his wife . . .he even admited to it . . .

Dont get me wrong - Im not brain washed into thinking that cops are all good all the time (I dont enjoy being pulled over for nothing)

caustic neon · Post by **caustic neon** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:08 am

yes i agree with you on that. and copr are out there for a reason but i will say that reason is not to pull some one over for a loud muffler.

J8t4m · Post by **J8t4m** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:56 am

caustic neon wrote:yes i agree with you on that. and copr are out there for a reason but i will say that reason is not to pull some one over for a loud muffler.

AGREED

OB · Post by OB » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:12 am

J8t4m wrote:
caustic neon wrote:yes i agree with you on that. and copr are out there for a reason but i will say that reason is not to pull some one over for a loud muffler.
AGREED

+1

---------------------

j8t, my comparisions were made knowing that the vehicles are in different classes, but the whole point of them was to show that if one modified exhaust is illegal due to SOUND, then all of them should be. I could understand if it had ANYTHING to do with emissions, but ill bet a million bucks that every bike, car, truck, suv, no matter what size the engine, could be kept under 95 Db from the factory. I dont think harleys even HAVE mufflers, and dont tell me there isnt enough room to plop one on there. if a small street bike can have a fart can, why couldnt a harley? theyre MADE to be loud! I dont see why the aftermarket buyers shouldnt be allowed to make their vehicles as loud as they want, as long as they comply with all the safety/emissions laws. If the arguement is about loudness/public disturbance etc, then NO car should be allowed to exceed a certain limit. its BS. and so is the profiling garbage!

J8t4m · Post by **J8t4m** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:36 am

It seems logical to me that a passenger car that is on the road daily for an hour or more a day should need to comply to slightly more rigerious laws than a vehicle that goes on the road once a week . . . .

What do you think the passenger car to truck, or motorcycle ratio is ? Im sure its alot higher in warmer areas that have nice weather year round . . . but im pretty sure its pretty low even in those areas

Cocerning Harelys . . . Some have mufflers - Some dont . . . (I dont much care for any type of harley but . . . . )

Buell's (Harleys Streek bikes) they have mufflers) - as a matter of fact - Street bikes are completely different than cars - If you straight piped a street bike - you would loose ALOT of performance . . .

Generally the only street bikes without mufflers are turboed (which alot of times arent even street legal)

I dont know the laws in cali. But I THOUGHT that vehciles were broken into clases
example

TYPE X need to be lower than 95dbl
TYPE Z needs to be lower than 105 dbl
so on and so on -

i very well could be COMPLETELY worng about that . . im to lazy to look it up either . . .

There has to be a limit/stanards - or everyone would be WAY to loud . . . Manufactures have to produce their product to met those standards . . .

There also has to be exeptions to those rules - or else antquie cars or older cars could never be legally driven on the road again . . .

Im not trying to argue with you OB (I know how much you like to argue on here . . . )

Kevin_GP · Post by **Kevin_GP** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:18 pm

the main concept you are dealing with here is called "profiling." i dont know about the rest of the county, but in CA its a big deal and cops can already (supposedly) be repremanded for doing it.

just because "person type x" is statistically found to commit "crime type y", does not give the police any right to assume that a "person x" on the street could possible have/will committ "crime y". its hard to prove that profiling took place, but people have done it.

just because your car looks like the type of cars that are known to illegally race etc., gives them no right whatsoever to assume that you could be up to the same things.

locally, a public group came in to town with the intent to follow police around and video tape them with the intent to catch cops profiling. of course the police dept. came up with some crazy excuses that those people are obstructing justice by not letting cops do their jobs freely. if they are doing nothing wrong, why would they have anything against people secretly videotaping them?!?!

That is the biggest problem with that video, you hit it right on the head. Just because a car has stickers or wheels or whatever they look for, does not mean it has street raced before.

Another problem with that video is they lump 2 completely different things together to try to make the same point. Emmission laws and street racing has nothing to do with each other, but they put them together like bread and butter. Just because a car has an intake does not mean its going to kill someone street racing, just the same cars that are stock street race.

Its not so much street racing that kills people, its reckless driving. Anyone in anycar can drive recklessly.

I guess I can understand there efforts with emmissions, but theres wayyyyyy bigger problems in the world for people to focus there attention on that.

J8t4m · Post by **J8t4m** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:39 pm

Kevin_GP wrote: Its not so much street racing that kills people, its reckless driving. Anyone in anycar can drive recklessly.

AGREED

Me and my wife almost got into a 55 mph accident b/c someone completely ran a red light (The light had been red for about 10 seconds) he BARELY missed us -

It was very scary

the impact woulda happened on my wifes side to

Praesepe559 · Post by **Praesepe559** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:42 pm

i think there is a difference between profiling and seriously having concern based on a suspicious looking vehicle/person. i dont think there would be anything wrong with a cop pulling someone over if they ligitimately think you may be involved in some type of reckless driving activities.. but the majority of cops would not be able to follow those loose guidelines without abusing the power and harrassing people like they do now. thats probably exactly how things came to be the way they are.

as far as the smog laws go, i know some of you dont have to deal with it the same way as we do in CA. We have to pass a smog test in order to register the car every other year. Smog stations are operated by mechanics who deal with smog related issues all day every day.. but somehow cops now are super smog technicians who can visually tell if your car is not legal based on a few hours of training? I think if there is concern, you should be cited to pass a (free of charge) smog test done by real professionals.

dont get me wrong, lots of things cops do i take as being acceptable even when others dont.. i mean their job is to protect the public. but i mean some of the crap they pull is just down right unecessary compared to other things they could be doing with their time. a $250 fine for cruising is just crazy. they take picures of cars on the main cruising street to put on file, so they can tell if you are always out there they can target you. all that manpower and tax money put into that is the biggest waste EVAR i mean who gives a dam if people want to cruise? all the stores are closed that late anyways.

oh well just my .02, or more like .25 for the length of the post

EMO420 · Post by **EMO420** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:17 am

just my two cents... if prophiling is not bias'd as cops claim.... them how come they dont pull over minivans? every time i see a soccer mom (or dad) they are doin 10mph over the speed limit minimum, AND they have a carload of kids???

i complain due to incident... soccer mom blew by me at est 20+mph in a flashing-marked school zone. i was doin the posted 20mph(when flashing) and I got pulled over cause it couldnt have been the insane chic tryin to kill her and everyone else's kids...

add Soccer Mom to the prophile list... plain-jane minivans watch out... ya right...

joelrgr · Post by **joelrgr** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:37 am

I disagree with the motorcycles dont have roomfor long pipes and mufflers to quiet them down. Ive never once heard a load honda/bmw "road cruising" kinda bike. I have however heard a Harley with a quiet exhaust, and a ninja that had a quiet muffler on it that didnt SCREAM. I think in those cases the shortness and normal use of motorcycle exhausts is an excuse and bullshit if its being held in a different category.
When i still had my Avenger i got pulled over all the time for loud exhaust, but like i think i mentioned about my neon, its all legal. Yet i had the SAME cop pull me over more than 2 or 3 times for it. Of course its going to be loud, big burly headers ( i believe it was 2.25" coming from each of the 6 cylinders, merging 6-2-1 to a hi flow cat and a 3" predator cat-back and magnaflow end), with a built 3L V6, you're going to make noise. BUT that cop couldnt do anything about it the first time, why would he keep on keepin it on lol He even called me by name before seeing my license the following times so i KNEW he knew who he pulled over. Yet there is a full blown DRAG car in town that will do huhge burnouts and speed down the road at 100+ in a 55 and ive never seen him pulled over.

Moral of the story, biased cops that like big V8 mullets, hating on anything sleek, low, loud, and new.

OB · Post by OB » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:25 am

^^thats also nicely said. we could all go on for days about this. bottom line is: it sucks. thats about all i know for sure.