Rotor and pad questions

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:16 am

Ok its that time again for brakes, ive looked around a few times and everyone says to stay away from PS rotors because of rust and all so that leave me with what stock OEM gear? and i was thinking about some hawk HP pads.

Anyone know more about the rotors?

dblsg · Post by **dblsg** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:59 pm

from what was previoulsly posted... the powerslots are stock rotors, with the added slots

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:06 pm

what about these "Frozen" rotors on tirerack.com...

Seems everyone ive talked to says they know nothing about them.

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:07 pm

I know nothing about them.

Post by **Diablo0** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:18 pm

I know nothign about them...

I do know I love my powerslots, don't rust like the stock rotors and I like my pedal feel. They've also lasted longer than my OEM rotors as far as warping goes. I also have Hawk HPS pads.

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:29 pm

so you think that PS slotted and some Hawk HPS's should do the trick. my stockers have 44K on them and are just now starting to rust noticably

Post by **Diablo0** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:34 pm

Yeah I think you'll like them.

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Mon May 01, 2006 2:56 pm

sweet. those stockers are getting real worn

OB · Post by OB » Mon May 01, 2006 2:57 pm

i got a few simple questions while were at it;

when is a good time to replace the front and rear pads? (my car is approaching 15k on stock brakes). when should I look into replacing rotors?

also, what are the best drum replacement parts performance wise? I plan on doing Hawk pads up front but i dont know a thing about the rears. any ideas? thx

marakka · Post by **marakka** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:43 pm

Just keep checkin em OB. Once you get the vibration in the wheel from a warpage or a low pedal from wear... you'll know its time. A good indication is low brake fluid. Since brake fluid is a sealed system you should NEVER have to add to it. I repeat. YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO ADD TO BRAKE FLUID. Low fluid indicates one of two problems. A leak somewhere in the system and the fluid is escaping or worn components allowing for more fluid to remain in the calipers or wheel cylinders or both.

I'm replacing my stock components at 15k due to warpage. A few too many high speed stops on the autobahn have eaten through them. I will say that I am completely pleased with the lack of dust created by the stock setup. Makes me proud of the little car. At least it does that right

Post by **racer12306** » Mon May 01, 2006 4:05 pm

Floyd wrote:Ok its that time again for brakes

is that a generic saying or are you really putting brakes on the car again? if you are then damn you are killing some brakes.

i have almost 50000 miles on my oem brakes. last i looked at them (about 5000 - 7000 miles ago) they looked like i still had 25000+ miles left on them.

back brakes last a long time, except on beetles. most of the braking force is put on the fronts so you will replace the fronts well before the backs. as said, just keep looking at them whenever you rotate the tires and judge from the pad left.

marakka · Post by **marakka** » Mon May 01, 2006 4:14 pm

You know... I've had problems with my rears since 8k miles. They started squealing and making a grinding. I took it in for service and they said there was nothing wrong. When I'd drive the tech around and get he noise going he'd act like he didn't hear it. Fuckin Germans.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Mon May 01, 2006 4:56 pm

I bought a set of OEM premium rotors from Carquest for $72. I noticed my brake fluid is a dark color, isn't it supposed to be clear with a slight haze? I am also gonna get one of those caliper painting kits while I am replacing the rotors.

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Tue May 02, 2006 12:45 am

I have SP performance drilled and slotted rotors w/ Hawk HPS brake pads and I love them. They dont rust and they have very little dust.

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 02, 2006 1:08 am

so i should look into fresh pads soon? im not crazy on the brakes, i d/s a lot instead (people get absolutly puzzled trying to follow me sometimes haha). anyways, would hawk hps pads be ok on stock rotors or will they warp quick? any and all info on reliability would be great. and what mileage is a good time to change out the rear drums? im stickin with stock rotors and whatnot, cant afford something i dont need.

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Tue May 02, 2006 1:21 am

I have always heard that because the rear drums get so little of the force of the braking, they dont need to be replaced as often. Mine has stock drum shoes in the rear, and its on 65k miles roughly.

Only reason I swapped out the front disk, pads, and calipers is because it was free

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:47 am

You know... I've had problems with my rears since 8k miles. They started squealing and making a grinding. I took it in for service and they said there was nothing wrong. When I'd drive the tech around and get he noise going he'd act like he didn't hear it. Fuckin Germans.

Neon rear drums are known to squeal because of the brake dust built up inside of them. Take the rear drums off, clean thoroughly with brake cleaner, take some sand paper to break the glaze on the shoes, clean again and reassemble.
As for the front pads, dont get semi-metalic's. They like to eat and warp rotors, lots of brake dust..etc..
Im running NAPA ceramic pads at all 4 corners(4wheel disc) and I noticed a major difference with the pads alone, let alone the adition of the slotted rotors to the front to help disapate heat...

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:07 am

racer12306 wrote:
Floyd wrote:Ok its that time again for brakes
is that a generic saying or are you really putting brakes on the car again? if you are then damn you are killing some brakes.

i have almost 50000 miles on my oem brakes. last i looked at them (about 5000 - 7000 miles ago) they looked like i still had 25000+ miles left on them.

back brakes last a long time, except on beetles. most of the braking force is put on the fronts so you will replace the fronts well before the backs. as said, just keep looking at them whenever you rotate the tires and judge from the pad left.

Na it was just a generic saying

only 44K on the car i hope ive never changed them lol

The fronts are already hitting the "get new brakes" metal bar that squeels so i think thats enough to get me to place some moola.

Looked everything over again and i think im doing Brembo rotors and Hawk HPS pads

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:10 am

orangeblastsxt wrote:so i should look into fresh pads soon? im not crazy on the brakes, i d/s a lot instead (people get absolutly puzzled trying to follow me sometimes haha). anyways, would hawk hps pads be ok on stock rotors or will they warp quick? any and all info on reliability would be great. and what mileage is a good time to change out the rear drums? im stickin with stock rotors and whatnot, cant afford something i dont need.

take a look at them and judge. i would be surprised if you needed pads at 15000 miles. whenever you do change the pads, get the rotors turned or replace them. if you dont, there could be minor warpage that you cant feel that will wear out your new pads early.

for the first time it might be a good idea to buy a new set of oem replacement rotors and then the next time you put brakes on it turn your current rotors and put them on. you generally get 1 turn out of a rotor before its too thin, if your lucky, and you want to push it, you can get 2 turns.

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 02, 2006 10:20 am

im new to brakes; can i turn the rotors or do i have to have it done professionally? how long will everything (pads/rotors) last once i turn my stock ones and put on some hawk pads? which hawk pads last the longest and will need the least maintenance for the rest of the brake system?

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:42 am

you will need to have someone with a brake lathe turn them, unless you have access to one and know how to do it.

brake life is too variable to predict without knowing how long pads/rotors have laster on your car in the past with you driving.

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 02, 2006 10:59 am

well considering my careless habits in the past, id say the didnt last, but rather were MADE to last, if you catch my drift. lets just say i dont ride em like a grandma but im not afraid to get on em enough to fade em a bit when driving with spirit. id say they get average use when u balance those to out, so i figure 20-25k miles would be a good time to swap in new pads. i was hoping not to need rotors for financial reasons but if i do im gonna go for some slotted OEM's i think. wonder what a shop will charge to install rotors and pads up front? ill wait a little while for the rears, chic was right they should outlast the fronts by far cuz they only see 20% of the work. thanks in advance for any more info guys!

ps hey racer what mods have u done to the neon since u ran at the track (16.11). Id like to see if you could break into the 15's, maybe there's hope for the rest of us!

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Tue May 02, 2006 2:38 pm

Orangeblastsxt, Even at 25K i think you can get more out of your brakes, im by no means easy on the brakes and mine are just now starting to fade at 44K. im sure i could get like 20K more out of them but i have some extra money sitting around thats dieing to go towards new brakes.

Try checking first then go from there...i know with my wheels i can see pad wear without taking the tire off or anything.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 02, 2006 2:43 pm

DO NOT PAY SOMEONE TO DO THE FRONT BRAKES. that is too easy of a job to pay someone to do. its two bolts on the caliper, off with the caliper, off with the rotor, on with the new one, new pads in the caliper and caliper back on. its that easy. back shoes are a different story.

no additional mods. i do know that if i were to put my ram air on and ran on a night with good air, i would be in the 15s. here is a link to pics of my ram air setup http://forum.2gn.org/viewtopic.php?t=5801 . iirc the air could have been a little better the night i ran 16.11. so i should be a little quicker, but that is just splitting hairs.

atom · Post by **atom** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:20 pm

I wanna change my brakes myself. Im a little over 60k and theyve always squeeled a little like mentioned above, but now they make a god awful sound. Never done anything like this, you guys think I can do this myself without someone teaching me?

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:27 pm

this is copied directly out of my service manual. its really long

BRAKE PADS/SHOES – FRONT

REMOVAL
NOTE: Before proceeding with this procedure,
(Refer to 5 - BRAKES - WARNING).
NOTE: Some vehicles use a different lining material
on the front disc brake shoes than other vehicles.
When new brake shoes are installed, be sure the
brake shoes for the correct type of brake system
are used.
(1) Raise the vehicle. (Refer to LUBRICATION &
MAINTENANCE/HOISTING - STANDARD PROCEDURE).
(2) Remove both front tire and wheel assemblies
from vehicle (Refer to 22 - TIRES/WHEELS -
REMOVAL).
(3) Begin on one side of the vehicle.
NOTE: In some cases, it may be necessary to
retract the caliper piston in its bore a small amount
in order to provide sufficient clearance between the
shoes and the rotor to easily remove the caliper
from the knuckle. This can usually be accomplished
before the guide pin bolts are removed, by grasping
the rear of the caliper and pulling outward working
with the guide pins, thus retracting the piston.
Never push on the piston directly as it may get
damaged.
(4) Remove the two brake caliper guide pin bolts
(Fig. 19).
(5) Remove the disc brake caliper from the steering
knuckle. The caliper is removed by first tipping
either the top (right side caliper) or bottom (left side
caliper) of the caliper away from the brake rotor,
then pulling the caliper off the opposite end’s caliper
slide abutment (on the knuckle) and brake rotor.
(6) Support the caliper using a wire or cord to prevent
the weight of caliper from damaging the brake
hose (Fig. 20). Do not let the caliper hang by the
brake hose.
(7) Remove the outboard brake shoe from the caliper
by prying the shoe retaining clip over the raised
area on the caliper. Slide the brake shoe down and
off of the caliper (Fig. 21).
( Pull the inboard brake shoe away from the caliper
piston until the retaining clip is out of the cavity
in the piston (Fig. 22) and remove the shoe.
(9) Repeat the above procedure to the front brakes
on the other side of the vehicle.

CLEANING - DISC BRAKE SHOES
WARNING: DUST AND DIRT ACCUMULATING ON
BRAKE PARTS DURING NORMAL USE MAY CONTAIN
ASBESTOS FIBERS FROM PRODUCTION OR
AFTERMARKET BRAKE LININGS. BREATHING
EXCESSIVE CONCENTRATIONS OF ASBESTOS
FIBERS CAN CAUSE SERIOUS BODILY HARM.
EXERCISE CARE WHEN SERVICING BRAKE
PARTS. DO NOT SAND OR GRIND BRAKE LINING
UNLESS EQUIPMENT USED IS DESIGNED TO CONTAIN
THE DUST RESIDUE. DO NOT CLEAN BRAKE
PARTS WITH COMPRESSED AIR OR BY DRY
BRUSHING. CLEANING SHOULD BE DONE BY
DAMPENING THE BRAKE COMPONENTS WITH A
FINE MIST OF WATER, THEN WIPING THE BRAKE
COMPONENTS CLEAN WITH A DAMPENED CLOTH.
DISPOSE OF CLOTH AND ALL RESIDUE CONTAINING
ASBESTOS FIBERS IN AN IMPERMEABLE
CONTAINER WITH THE APPROPRIATE LABEL. FOLLOW
PRACTICES PRESCRIBED BY THE OCCUPATIONAL
SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION
(OSHA) AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
AGENCY (EPA) FOR THE HANDLING, PROCESSING,
AND DISPOSING OF DUST OR DEBRIS THAT MAY
CONTAIN ASBESTOS FIBERS.

INSPECTION - DISC BRAKE SHOES
Visually inspect brake shoes (pads) for uneven lining
wear. Also inspect for excessive lining deterioration.
Check the clearance between the tips of the
wear indicators on the shoes (if equipped) and the
brake rotors.
If a visual inspection does not adequately determine
the condition of the lining, a physical check will
be necessary. To check the amount of lining wear,
remove the disc brake shoes from the calipers.
Measure each brake shoe. The combined brake
shoe and its lining material thickness should be measured
at its thinnest point.
For front disc brake shoes, when a set of brake
shoes are worn to a thickness of approximately 7.95
mm (5/16 inch), they should be replaced.
Typically, if front shoes are worn out, both fronts
and rears need to be replaced. Make sure to check
rears. (Refer to 5 - BRAKES/HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL/
BRAKE PADS/SHOES - REAR DISC -
INSPECTION)
Replace both disc brake shoes (inboard and outboard)
on each caliper. It is necessary to replace the
shoes on the opposite side of the vehicle as well as
the shoes failing inspection.
If the brake shoe assemblies do not require
replacement, be sure to reinstall the brake shoes in
the original position they were removed from.

INSTALLATION
NOTE: Some vehicles use a different lining material
on the front disc brake shoes than other vehicles.
When new brake shoes are installed, be sure the
brake shoes for the correct type of brake system
are used.
(1) Begin on one side of the vehicle.
(2) Completely retract the caliper piston back into
the bore of the caliper. This is required to gain the
necessary shoe-to-rotor clearance for the caliper
installation onto the steering knuckle.
(3) Remove any protective paper from the noise
suppression gasket on both the inner and outer brake
shoes (if equipped).
(4) Install the inboard brake shoe into the caliper
piston by firmly pressing the shoe in with the
thumbs (Fig. 23). Be sure the inboard brake shoe is
positioned squarely against the face of the caliper
piston.
(5) Slide the new outboard brake shoe onto the caliper
(Fig. 24).
(6) Lubricate both steering knuckle caliper slide
abutments with a liberal amount of Mopart Multipurpose
Lubricant, or an equivalent.
CAUTION: Use care when installing the caliper
assembly onto the steering knuckle so the seals on
the caliper guide pin bushings do not get damaged
by the steering knuckle bosses.
(7) Install the disc brake caliper (with pads) on the
brake rotor and steering knuckle. The left side caliper
is installed by first sliding the top of the caliper
past the top caliper slide abutment on the steering
knuckle to hook the top edge of the caliper, then
pushing the lower end of the caliper into place
against the knuckle (Fig. 25). The right side caliper
is installed by first sliding the bottom edge of the caliper
past the lower caliper slide abutment on the
steering knuckle to hook the lower edge of the caliper,
then pushing the top of the caliper into place
against the steering knuckle.
( Install the caliper guide pin bolts and tighten
them to a torque of 22 N•m (192 in. lbs.) (Fig. 19).
(9) Install the tire and wheel assembly (Refer to 22
- TIRES/WHEELS - INSTALLATION). Tighten the
wheel mounting nuts to a torque of 135 N•m (100 ft.
(10) Repeat the above procedure to the front
brakes on the other side of the vehicle.
(11) Lower the vehicle.
(12) Pump the brake pedal to set the brake shoes
to the brake rotors, then check brake fluid level in
master cylinder reservoir. Adjust brake fluid level as
necessary.
(13) Road test the vehicle and make several stops
to wear off any foreign material on the brakes and to
seat the brake pads.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:56 pm

Yeah, fronts are a simple job and the rears really aren't much harder. I just changed both of mine out about a month ago. The total (front and back) took me about 1.5 hours.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:04 pm

03sxt wrote:Yeah, fronts are a simple job and the rears really aren't much harder. I just changed both of mine out about a month ago. The total (front and back) took me about 1.5 hours.

show off

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:08 pm

racer12306 wrote:
03sxt wrote:Yeah, fronts are a simple job and the rears really aren't much harder. I just changed both of mine out about a month ago. The total (front and back) took me about 1.5 hours.
show off

No... Just trying to build confidence. (It really took me 4 hours.

)

Just kidding.

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Rotor and pad questions

Rotor and pad questions

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