tricking the NGC?

minidodge32 · Post by **minidodge32** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:36 pm

yes, both have the NGC but the difference is that the SRT-4 computer is programmed for pure racing capability and the regular neon is programmed for street driving and not racing. This is why we're having so much trouble with the computer. It's not that a new computer will give you 20 horsepower instantly. It's that the NGC is backing off the acceleration to save gas mileage and economy and is therefore slowing our cars down. Thats what i believe. Even if our cars are tuned good from the factory, thats no excuse for them to be slower than most other cars on the road. If they were built that great we would be able to smoke a honda anyday. I'm definitly not saying that i don't love the he** out of my little neon though.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:02 pm

the reason we are slower than a lot of cars on the road is because we have 132hp. we run with civics even though they have 117hp because they are lighter.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:52 pm

DCx encryption is copyright protected thats why. BUT, a couple of people have found out the 00-02 programing is dated for 1996 programming. The research is being looked into on wether or not the copyright is still in effect, let alon that same programing being used in the NGC cars. It takes time

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 16, 2006 7:29 pm

so basically I just happen to own a car that is made by the ONLY manufacturer who doesnt "give out PCM information"? doesnt that just sound like BS? what i wanna know, like ive hinted before, is how any of you actually know this. where do u get this info about DCX not giving out info? why would other companies give it out and not DCX? this makes zero sense.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue May 16, 2006 7:30 pm

I work for DCx

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 16, 2006 7:37 pm

racer12306 wrote:the reason we are slower than a lot of cars on the road is because we have 132hp. we run with civics even though they have 117hp because they are lighter.

btw racer, i dont know how much lighter a modern civic is. id bet that a mid-trim (sxt equivalent) civic easily weighs MORE than a neon. the old hatches are lighter of course, but then again so are the 1gns. Neons have no problem handing base civics their lunch. our cars are extremely light considering theyre 4 door. a stock neon sxt, for example, is 2626 lbs, which is only 300 lbs more than a mid 90's honda del sol (2dr compact). all things considered, the neon is actually quite quick for its size; probably due to its reasonable amount of TQ, and very light weight as well. anyways, back on topic.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 16, 2006 7:42 pm

well i guess it would be more reasonable to pit us head to head with a 4 door civic, but my buddy had a 2 door civic (04 i think) 5 speed and we would run close, but i was slightly ahead of him.

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 16, 2006 7:44 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:I work for DCx

so does my friends gf, doesnt mean she knows everything about the company. do u work at a dealership or for corporate? no offense but the employees at every DCX dealer ive ever been to arent too bright.

caustic neon · Post by **caustic neon** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:04 pm

dude watch it. brr is one of the most knowlageable(sp) guys on here. i trust him i dont undersatnd why you dont. and just a fyi most companies like JET and AEM, and most outher chip/computer companies have deprogramers (guys with expensive computers to figure out and map the computers. as fo DCx they place a jell on there motherbords that cant be removed. outher companies just seal ther comps.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:18 pm

Im not on the corp. side but I have very few friends that are

Thats why im here in this forum, If I cant give you an answer I can call someone whoe will

Diablo0 gave me enough respect to join and post what I can, there has yet to be a person that dis-regards my comments. Or atleast thats the best way I can explain it legally....

Ifixyawata · Post by **Ifixyawata** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:36 pm

Exactly what other manufacturers give out PCM coding? I'm not sure I've heard of an open-source PCM.

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 16, 2006 9:40 pm

no disrespect BRR. I just think this is all a load of crap.

^good point ifixya, that just doesnt add up.

TNK · Post by **TNK** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:04 pm

if BRR says something will or will nto work, i believe him. hes one of the most informed guys on this site.

OB · Post by OB » Tue May 16, 2006 10:38 pm

he didnt say whether or not something would work. we arent even talking about whether or not something will work.

I simply want to know the answers like everyone else. why does the dodge neon happen to be the only car with an "uncrackable" computer? even cars with "ngc"-type computers (EVO) have reflashes and piggybacks available to get rid of the problem. is it just a lack of aftermarket engine management support? I just dont get whats so hard about it.

Post by **racer12306** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:43 pm

actually the original question in this thread was whether a certan method to trick the computer would work. and maybe there is some confidentiality stuff he has to watch for. big companys dont like releasing info.

CrashTeam · Post by **CrashTeam** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:21 am

You guys really need engine managment... Without it I dont believe there is any good way to "trick" the computer...

Its like this with just about all new cars...

Ifixyawata · Post by **Ifixyawata** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:51 am

Here's my vote. If this NGC is such a hindrance and you're really serious about modding, then just read up, study hard and do MegaSquirt.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:19 am

AH!! megasquirt again...

Any who lets get back to the actual topic now

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:00 am

I think it's all BS. We have slow cars... That's the problem.

OB · Post by OB » Wed May 17, 2006 10:50 am

well since im planning an srt swap and probably AEM EMS, this isnt really a big deal for me, but its still frustrating nonetheless. does anyone know if Standalone EM can be tuned to pass emissions?

Post by **racer12306** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:01 am

i *believe* that in order to pass emissions the station has to be able to plug into an obd port if the car was originally equipped with one.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:49 pm

I really would like to see if its possible to get an earlier 2gn computer to run an NGC car. I know its "possible" but I'd like to make a certain adapter to run an early 2gn comp...so then we can run AFX-r's.

OB · Post by OB » Wed May 17, 2006 3:11 pm

what exactly are the AFX computers good for? just plug and go or do they offer tuning? what gains are usually seen (dyno)?

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:16 pm

^ Ask DAwm he swears by (at) his

lol.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:37 pm

now thats mean mox.

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:31 pm

i think Howell fucked his up cause they usually do better than what his put out. they probably just gave him stock PCM on accident

Post by **racer12306** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:37 pm

i really wonder what happened cause he can go up to 8000 rpm. i think he said he wasnt paying attention one time and hit 8500rpm. something is definetly not right.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:44 pm

invujerry wrote:I really would like to see if its possible to get an earlier 2gn computer to run an NGC car. I know its "possible" but I'd like to make a certain adapter to run an early 2gn comp...so then we can run AFX-r's.

I've been wondering this ever since the first time I read a post about NGC. Anybody have a FSM for anything 00-02 that I could get a pinout for the ECU? I don't understand why it would be so complicated to re-pin the connector or splice on a different connector. Neons don't even have a BCM, so there's an entire additional computer you wouldn't have to worry about interfacing properly with. Yes, Neons have some sort of data bus because they're OBD, but the only other place it would go is an automatic transmission controller. Sentry Key would be a bitch to deal with, and I'm sure I'd run into one or more sensors that might have different ranges or signals, but that stuff can be swapped or somehow electrically corrected.

I'm sure that some wires were added or left out when the switch to NGC happened. I'd just really like to look closely at it.

I'm an electronics engineer with a good amount of car experience, and if I could figure out a way to do it, you can sure as hell bet I'd post it up on 2gn.org before anywhere else.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:18 pm

^^^
For 00-02 the major differences ae the guts inside the PCM. If a pcm is setup for an ATX the guts are installed inside the pcm where as the MTX does not need it so they were never installed. The same goes for the 03-up NGC. Hopefully you understood the brief summery

Post by **jonnymopar** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:06 pm

Yeah, chances are if I were to attempt this, I'd do it with a 5-speed car without Sentry Key. Thanks for the info!