NGC and a quick thought

lolelectricbluesxt · Post by **lolelectricbluesxt** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:20 am

Maybe we should all spam Dodge with 1000's of emails asking them to release a reflash for NGC.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:54 am

^^^
They would laugh at you

You could always jump over to SRTforums and ask the SRT reps about it though. I hear once in a while there is a topic where they do questions and answers...
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=247
See if they can answer your question, I have not had time to go there when there on...

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:12 am

My opinion is the the NGC is not doing anything to hurt performance. At the same time they put in the NGC, they also dropped compression from 9.6 to 9.3. That's gonna do all the same things that people are claiming the NGC is doing. Now we all know that a lower compression ratio is gonna make less power on the same mods, so why are we blaming this "better" computer?

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:32 am

Not that it matters much, but I thought compression was once 9.3 and it was raised to 9.8?

BRR, I am curious what they would really do if people started emailing them about getting reflashes for our computers? Why wouldn't they want to do it, especially if they could make a buck off of it? I mean, they have the resources and code all there, and would cost them next to nothing to change our maps and remove rev limiters/top speeds, etc... I am no marketing man, or a representative of any kind, but think of it - what loss would there be to them if they came up with this stuff like Mitsu and honda and Toyota have done? Look at what TRD did for the Scion tC? they came up with a supercharger and then a flash - why? Because they respect their "tuners and enthusaists" - IMO. I do not think Dodge cares about that, and I think it is because they do not feel that the people are out there who do care about thsi sort of thing.

So why not spam them with emails??

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:07 am

Give me an email and I will spam em'!

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:30 am

me too!

btw good point on the compression, another reason NGC may be BS

caustic neon · Post by **caustic neon** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:39 am

I am in the prossess of upping my compression in addition to a mag head swap and a bigger cam ect on my 03 sxt so when im done we will see about this NGC

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:53 am

to my knowledge you cannot change compression by changing out head parts. the pistons are generally the parts that decide compression.

caustic neon · Post by **caustic neon** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:14 am

i edited my to say what i ment. and yes i know that im going to throw DOHC pistons in the car.

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:38 am

oh ok gotcha, i must have misunderstood

ACHEAPSHOT · Post by **ACHEAPSHOT** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:34 pm

orangeblastsxt wrote:whats the stage 2 good for, 12 psi? with a solid tune you should have one quick car, but keep in mind, most srts out there are also running stage2/3 mopar kits and pushing over 300whp, so u might have some stockers for breakfast but unless u plan on some heavy boost and lots of $$, i dunno!

You're right, a Stage 3 SRT would be damn hard to beat.

The Hahn Stage II kit w/FMIC is claimed to make a 1st gen Auto run mid 13's. Hahn's car ran a 13.02 @ 103 with:
* Hahn RaceCraft Stage II Turbosystem with Front Mount Intercooler option
* Ported cylinder head with Crane Cam
* Higher stall torque converter
* 2 1/2" exhaust, no catalytic converter
* AFX Underdrive pulley
* Weight with driver: 2400 lbs.
* Boost Pressure: 9psi
* 14" Slicks on stock Neon alloy wheels

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:44 pm

thats effin fast. with a boost controller, some additional fuel and timing tuning, and a built motor w/ 3" exhaust, id bet that car could run low 12's or even 11's! thats insane for those mods, sounds worth it!

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:46 pm

ACHEAPSHOT wrote:
orangeblastsxt wrote:whats the stage 2 good for, 12 psi? with a solid tune you should have one quick car, but keep in mind, most srts out there are also running stage2/3 mopar kits and pushing over 300whp, so u might have some stockers for breakfast but unless u plan on some heavy boost and lots of $$, i dunno!
You're right, a Stage 3 SRT would be damn hard to beat.

The Hahn Stage II kit w/FMIC is claimed to make a 1st gen Auto run mid 13's. Hahn's car ran a 13.02 @ 103 with:
* Hahn RaceCraft Stage II Turbosystem with Front Mount Intercooler option
* Ported cylinder head with Crane Cam
* Higher stall torque converter
* 2 1/2" exhaust, no catalytic converter

Take note, thats an automatic too..
* AFX Underdrive pulley
* Weight with driver: 2400 lbs.
* Boost Pressure: 9psi
* 14" Slicks on stock Neon alloy wheels

Take note thats an automatic too... Pure boost.

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:48 pm

i dont understand why u reposted that...

EDIT: ah ha. wierd.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:49 pm

You must of sent the exact time I quoted. Messed things up.

ACHEAPSHOT · Post by **ACHEAPSHOT** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:08 pm

orangeblastsxt wrote:thats effin fast. with a boost controller, some additional fuel and timing tuning, and a built motor w/ 3" exhaust, id bet that car could run low 12's or even 11's! thats insane for those mods, sounds worth it!

When I get it all done and tuned, I'd like to try my luck against my buddy's SRT w/AGP 50 trim on it. He'll prolly still win, but I think it would be a good race.

I love my 2gn, but it is soo much cheaper to get a 1st gen running where I want it.

CrashTeam · Post by **CrashTeam** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:26 pm

kc2002acr wrote:Not that it matters much, but I thought compression was once 9.3 and it was raised to 9.8?

BRR, I am curious what they would really do if people started emailing them about getting reflashes for our computers? Why wouldn't they want to do it, especially if they could make a buck off of it? I mean, they have the resources and code all there, and would cost them next to nothing to change our maps and remove rev limiters/top speeds, etc... I am no marketing man, or a representative of any kind, but think of it - what loss would there be to them if they came up with this stuff like Mitsu and honda and Toyota have done? Look at what TRD did for the Scion tC? they came up with a supercharger and then a flash - why? Because they respect their "tuners and enthusaists" - IMO. I do not think Dodge cares about that, and I think it is because they do not feel that the people are out there who do care about thsi sort of thing.

So why not spam them with emails??

The TRD SC and Reflash Only netted SCC Magazine a .6 second faster Quarter Mile on there Project TC. It got them right at a 60 whp gain but only 27 lb-ft Torque
Not really worth the $2,000 Price Tag...

Don't look to dodge to do that kind of reflash with the 2gn, it was never ment to be a sports car. If anyone does it, it will be an aftermarket.
Even Subaru of America doesn't offer a reflash.
If you want to start a patition, start with the aftermarket companies...

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:37 pm

orangeblastsxt wrote:to my knowledge you cannot change compression by changing out head parts. the pistons are generally the parts that decide compression.

Either can. Shorter pistons will create a larger volume space when at the top of their cycle. Also, more space in the head above the cylinder will accomplish the same thing. That's why some people are using head spacers on stock bottom ends to lower compression for boost.

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:38 pm

we dont need dodge to make the reflash, but some PCM codes would be a start! the whole problem is that dodge wont release the info to the companies, so we do need some amount of cooperation from dodges side to get this on the road anytime soon. otherwise we gotta wait for someone to crack it, and like everyone said, the neon isnt exactly the most popular car for tuners to work with. all in all its a crappy deal.

MoxHair · Post by **MoxHair** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:56 pm

esteinmaier wrote:My opinion is the the NGC is not doing anything to hurt performance. At the same time they put in the NGC, they also dropped compression from 9.6 to 9.3. That's gonna do all the same things that people are claiming the NGC is doing. Now we all know that a lower compression ratio is gonna make less power on the same mods, so why are we blaming this "better" computer?

That might be true for the SE and SXT models

But the R/T and ACRs still have 9.8:1 Compression Ratio

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:59 pm

and they prob also respond better to mods, just like the earlier model rts, minus the CEL's from the TB and stuff. I wouldnt be surprised if the cars ran the same on the dyno and at the track with the same mods.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:17 pm

CrashTeam wrote:The TRD SC and Reflash Only netted SCC Magazine a .6 second faster Quarter Mile on there Project TC. It got them right at a 60 whp gain but only 27 lb-ft Torque
Not really worth the $2,000 Price Tag...

Don't look to dodge to do that kind of reflash with the 2gn, it was never ment to be a sports car. If anyone does it, it will be an aftermarket.
Even Subaru of America doesn't offer a reflash.
If you want to start a patition, start with the aftermarket companies...

You still missed my point - which was why not spam them?
It is not so much a petition I want, just wondering if anyone has ever tried to contact Dodge about it... I mean, if no one tells me I smell funny, I go through life stinking - like DCX does.

lolelectricbluesxt · Post by **lolelectricbluesxt** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:09 pm

Thats what i was thinking kc2002acr, i figured there really hasnt been any large amount of people that have requested it, so they never actually bothered. Why release something if there was never a large request in the first place? If they can make a little money on it, i fail to see why they wouldnt.. They are a corperation after all..

CrashTeam · Post by **CrashTeam** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:43 pm

The point is, The Corp. wont do it becuase it would cost more money to produce then they would make due to lack of interest. A couple hundred users on a few websites isnt gonna cut it with Dcx, However a couple hundred users would make a hella profit for a smaller company to produce them on demand.

There just needs to be enough demand before they will supply.

If you guys start one Ill sign too even though I am neonless...