Problem with my front suspension?

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:00 am

The other day, as I was making a fairly sharp left turn and as I was bringing the steering wheel back to the normal straight position, the front right wheel made a horrible groaning/creeking noise. I also noticed that it does this moving slow and cranking the wheel fairly sharp... Always does it on the return to the normal position. I fear this is something expensive, but I hope it's not.

I do know that it's coming from the front passenger side and it does it in both forward and reverse.

Any ideas?

ACHEAPSHOT · Post by **ACHEAPSHOT** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:13 am

Check your power steering fluid.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:15 pm

Power steering level is showing about an 1/8" under the "Add" line... Think this could be it? I'll add more tomorrow afternoon when I go get a bottle. It takes just standard Power Steering Fluid, right?

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:28 am

Just as an update... The power steering fluid didn't help any. I noticed it do it yesterday again and I added the power steering fluid on Friday.

Any other ideas?

ewetho · Post by **ewetho** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:35 pm

Sounds as if possibly a bad tierod end or ball joint. Those joints are known to do that once in a while (Maybe not on a Neon but in automotive general).

My car uses ATF+4 as power steering fluid

Panhead · Post by **Panhead** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:53 pm

did u check to see if your cv boot is broken?

both tie rod end and ball joints are packed with grease. unless, either one of the seals are broken. if there is heavy dirty/grease, spray wd-40 to loose the dirt/grease and wipe it with a rag. check to see if there are cracks on both boots.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:03 pm

03sxt wrote:The other day, as I was making a fairly sharp left turn and as I was bringing the steering wheel back to the normal straight position, the front right wheel made a horrible groaning/creeking noise. I also noticed that it does this moving slow and cranking the wheel fairly sharp... Always does it on the return to the normal position. I fear this is something expensive, but I hope it's not. I do know that it's coming from the front passenger side and it does it in both forward and reverse.

Any ideas?

Exact same noise I am getting too, in the exact same situation. Whenver I am pulling out of my driveway or going really slow and making u-turns I hear that horrible goraning/croaking noise. Started happening after I lowered my car too. 17''s don't help either.
I am guessing its the ball joints or the cv joints. I am just waiting til August when I start my suspension class and I will get it fixed there for the price of the part.

bigjim · Post by **bigjim** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:16 pm

jack up that corner and you can wiggle the wheel, top and bottom or side to side, its definitly tierod, balljoint, cv joints

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:17 pm

Chyrsler has shit front end parts. Even if there isn't any play they still explode on you

There are some plugs on the bottom of the ball joints. Use a 5/16" socket and change them out for 1/8" NPT grease zirks then pump grease through them until the grease is relatively clear.

I would also look at the rear lower control arm bushings. This car eats them at a stupid fast rate. I know mine knocked quite a bit before I made a permenant fix.

Matt

Panhead · Post by **Panhead** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:22 pm

fixitmattman wrote:Chyrsler has shit front end parts. Even if there isn't any play they still explode on you

There are some plugs on the bottom of the ball joints. Use a 5/16" socket and change them out for 1/8" NPT grease zirks then pump grease through them until the grease is relatively clear.

I would also look at the rear lower control arm bushings. This car eats them at a stupid fast rate. I know mine knocked quite a bit before I made a permenant fix.

Matt

where can we get the 1/8" NPT grease zirks?

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:34 pm

Canadian Tire
Parts Source
Napa
Car Quest
O'Reileys
Autozone

.........

Matt

Panhead · Post by **Panhead** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:56 pm

alright, reason why i asked was because i have never seen them before. thanks man.

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:22 pm

This isn't good news to hear before the Carlisle journey.

I'll have to check on those things when there's a little more daylight left... Probably tomorrow.

dinetuner · Post by **dinetuner** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:39 pm

i had the same problem for a day then it just stopped.... no cracks in the cv boots or anything.... it was wierd...

OB · Post by OB » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:02 am

cranking the wheel full left or right is BAD FOR THE PS PUMP. it will make terrible noises because it is being overly stressed. Ive said this several times before, and im surprised someone else hasnt brought this up. Try turning the wheel all the way while the car is stopped. If the noise is similar/same, we can rule out suspension issues, and call it a day. If not, id have to guess it might either have something to do with the strut(s) or possibly one of the said joints. When making hard turns or u turns, do NOT turn the wheel all the way for more than 1-2 seconds or u ris badly damaging the PS pump.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:18 am

^^^You're joking right? Making full turns will damage my P/S pump, hahahaha.

Sorry, unless your pump is on its last legs and squealing like a pig it doesn't hurt a thing.

Matt

OB · Post by OB » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:53 am

is that youre opinion talking or your facts? I dont see much supporting your words, perhaps if youre gonna disagree you should include why.. ive personally heard this several times over from both reg people and mechanics. why do u think it doesnt make those noises all the time if theyre "normal"? enlighten me smarty man.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:35 am

I heard that from my auto teacher at school too. If you turn all the way for more than 5 seconds it hurts Mr. Power Steering Pump a little bit, I don't know how bad though because I tend to make alot of U-turns, but then again its not for more than 5 seconds.

and it has nothing to do with the struts cause I have brand new Tokico Blues.

jack up that corner and you can wiggle the wheel, top and bottom or side to side, its definitly tierod, balljoint, cv joints

^^^ Answer

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:35 pm

Okay, guys. Keep the bickering to a minimum, eh?

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:40 pm

orangeblastsxt wrote:is that youre opinion talking or your facts? I dont see much supporting your words, perhaps if youre gonna disagree you should include why.. ive personally heard this several times over from both reg people and mechanics. why do u think it doesnt make those noises all the time if theyre "normal"? enlighten me smarty man.

Go fist yourself smartass.

I didn't realize everytime I make a post it was going to turn into an essay writing class having to find supporting arguments just to please you.

All you're doing is operating the pump at peak pressure by deadheading the rack. When you deadhead the hydraulic system like that the flow has to go somewhere. This results in all the flow through the system relief valve. This is where the noise comes from. This is not damaging to the pump or anything, and is a normal noise for a hydraulic system to make. Of course it goes without saying that it takes more work and thus a more heat is generated in the fluid when this happens. Not to mention the fluid going over the relief creates a fair amount of heat as well. Here's the deal though, by design of the pump the relief dumps back to the reservoir completely bypassing the cooling circuit. So not only are you now adding more heat to the system, but you're no longer removing any as well. Add enough heat and the oil starts loosing is lubricating properties causing the pump to run even hotter, more slippage in the pump occures creating more heat, and eventually it gets so hot the pump components expand and score and ultimate seizure of the pump.

So after all that work of what may seem like me helping prove your point, what's my point? My point is it takes a lot longer than 5 seconds for this to happen, probably closer to 5 or 10 minutes. The reason why they put 5 seconds even in the FSM is so that people don't sit there with the racks bottomed out all day and Chrysler is not replacing pumps all day.

Matt

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:48 pm

Nice argument, but let's keep the personal bashing to PM's or somewhere private, please.

OB · Post by OB » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:57 pm

regardless of how long it takes to ruin a PS pump in one shot, the point is that it can indeed happen, and all I said was that holding it is hard on the pump. youre right, your arguement does support that, and everything u said makes perfect sense and was never disputed. Im just trying to throw out some likely reasons 03 might be hearing sounds. thanks for the essay hopefully some people read it and learn a simple way to keep their PS pumps in tip top shape for years.

grambo · Post by **grambo** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:30 pm

Does anyone here really think that your PS pump groaning and whining is good? Its a hydraulic pump. When it is at the END of its throw it groans. Why? It has run out of fluid to pump and its pumping air/nothing. This is no good. This is why pumps are "primed" before they are run. They won't pump when they are dry.

Back on subject. 03sxt = jack your car up and yank on everything. if you feel play somewhere, check it out. Thats how I found my bad tie-rod. The CV joints will get "clunky" when you lower it too. The angles have changed when lowered so they clunk when too much torque is applied.

*(And no, I don't need a lecture about driveline componants, I've built 4WD trail rigs o' plenty. Plus I replaced both axles the first time I heard it and it didn't do a damn thing.)

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:39 pm

If you're drawing in and pumping air, you've got problems. Unless you run the reservoir dry you should never be sucking air into the pump unless something is seriously wrong. As soon as you start getting air into the system you get cavitation then shortly after good by pump.

Matt

grambo · Post by **grambo** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:43 pm

air/nothing

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:03 pm

Ah, the PFM vacuum.

I give up.....

Matt

grambo · Post by **grambo** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:22 pm

OK.

I said NOTHING. Nothing meaning that the internal pressure releif valve in the power steering has opened because the rack is at its furthest point or "stops" and the power steering is putting out maximum pressure. It is a safety so you don't blow the pump/hoses.

*There is no need to be rude when a person is trying to simplify an explanation for someone who may not know as much. Most people don't realize tha a hydraulic system is a sealed system. When I have explained it in the past, the layman's term for a hydraulic systme pumping nothing was: air. I've been a mechanical engineer for over ten years. I run a crew of 14 engineers for one of the largest healthcare providers on the west coast. I hold two degrees and several certifications. I was rebuilding hydraulic systems when most people on this site were still eating their boogers.

grambo · Post by **grambo** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:35 am

sorry. 03sxt.

I thought about your noise all the way home from work. Now that my car is much lower I get more creeking from the strut towers. I think that when we lower these cars we put more side to side stress on the suspension, especially with the rubber bands on the wheels. All of the lateral force is going to be pivoting on that retainer nut at your strut tower during a bump/pothole/etc.
You've had your rims/tires for a few months now. That may have been just enough time to loosen things up to creak.
What I have done when the Pro Kit was on the car was to put the front end on jack stands, loosen the strut tower brace, break loose the lower control arm, and then re-torque them. It lasts about 2 months then you gotta' do it again. Racing suspension on cruddy roads is hogh maintenance. It sucks!

2GN.ORG

Problem with my front suspension?

Problem with my front suspension?

Re: Problem with my front suspension?