Front-end clunks (all the basics seemingly check out fine)

MichNeon · Post by **MichNeon** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:15 pm

05MoparSRT4 wrote:Camber or toe? I thought camber wasn't adjustable

To start with, i know i'm a little late to the party here, have'nt seen this section of the forum before.
Camber and caster is not adjustable on the 'net build' cars. That is, many cars since the early 90's are built with the camber and caster angles designed in. They are normally not adjustable for that reason. But, when parts get replaced, the manufacturing tolerances vary between the companies that make the replacement parts, so sometimes things have to be done to adjust them. Camber alone can be adjusted by slotting the struts or by installing cambolts. When both camber and caster are a little out of specs, shifting the k-frame can bring them back into specs. Sometimes, parts have to be replaced if they're bent/damaged or worn enough to alter the alignment.
One thing to check, is the coupler for the steering shaft, if it is worn or loose, it can give you problems like this. Also, check the steering shaft pinch bolt, it should be tight and on the flats of the shaft. Hopefully, this can help.

alturic · Post by **alturic** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:41 am

Hey guys, still pulling my hair out with the clunk on bumps when hitting them slowly.

So at this point I'm thinking it's either a.) middle motor mount, b.) strut/strut mounts or c.) R&P, meh I guess I'll throw in d.) sway bar links.

Middle motor mount: Anyway to visibly check it without ripping everything apart? I was thinking the only real thing I could do is support the engine and try taking out the star(?) "insert" headed bolt to see if it's sheered like alot of people have problems with, and the only reason mine might be that way was due to the condition of the upper and lower mounts. I'll have to snap some pics of just how bad they were. heh

Strut/Strut Mounts: Certain people/manufacturers (most likely trying to sell) say you should replace struts every 50k, I'm at 75k but car bounces back within 1-2 bounces... I'm going to see if I can pull down the plastic piece thats around the actual strut piston and see if there's any visible leaks behind it, but as far as anything visible currently, nothing. Bouncing on the car up/down same thing, returns within 1-2 hops. Only reason I would even possible think the struts/coils are bad is purely because of how little resistance there seems to be when pushing the car down? I don't normally play with struts to know if that's normal though.

Rack and Pinion: Only reasons I would suspect that is because of the "click" sound if I "snap" the wheel to the LEFT, as well as "feeling" the clunk/bumps in the steering wheel (it's been about 4 months of problems at this point, so I might just not remember what it's supposed to feel like lol) but I'm fairly certain I shouldn't actually feel anything in the steering wheel, no? The other reason is because the clunk comes from both driver and passenger side as well.

Again, it's not every little bump, hell it's not even every big bump, which is why it's hair pulling. The only consistent thing about it, is that the clunk is only ever when going slow and hitting a bump, big or small.

Sway Bar Links: I haven't gotten around to replacing them yet, and I guess it's just my luck thinking that it's not going to be a silly $16 fix. There's definitely no easy to tell play in the links, but I suppose that could also be why it's not every bump either.

Realistically the reason I don't think it's simply SBL's is because of the other symptoms, the "feel" in the steering wheel, and still the vibration at low engine idle since replacing the 3 (not pass middle) mounts.

----

So, with the sound coming from BOTH driver and passenger (depending on the bump, etc) that's what makes me want to rule out middle mount, BOTH struts and sway bar links. It would be alot easier trying to diagnosis it were it one side only.

I do still personally feel that the vibrations at idle and clunks over bumps and feeling it through the steering wheel is the same problem though. It's just frustrating as hell that 4 different mechanics (none charging diagnostic fee, most likely looking for those quick fixes obv) all say "can't find nothing".

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:08 am

alturic wrote:Hey guys, still pulling my hair out with the clunk on bumps when hitting them slowly.

So at this point I'm thinking it's either a.) middle motor mount, b.) strut/strut mounts or c.) R&P, meh I guess I'll throw in d.) sway bar links.

If you haven't replaced these already.... I'd say to start with replacing the sway bar end links, since you have already replaced the Lower Control Arms/Bushings.

They are cheap, and easy enough to do.
I've been amazed at the difference it has made on my own cars, in both handling improvement and quieting things down.

- Nick

ducktapetg · Post by **ducktapetg** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:13 am

NickKo wrote:
alturic wrote:Hey guys, still pulling my hair out with the clunk on bumps when hitting them slowly.

So at this point I'm thinking it's either a.) middle motor mount, b.) strut/strut mounts or c.) R&P, meh I guess I'll throw in d.) sway bar links.
If you haven't replaced these already.... I'd say to start with replacing the sway bar end links, since you have already replaced the Lower Control Arms/Bushings.

They are cheap, and easy enough to do.
I've been amazed at the difference it has made on my own cars, in both handling improvement and quieting things down.

- Nick

I'm with Nick. They are cheap and easy to do (not saying it will be because everything that is easy something happens which ends up taking a day). Also, I am experiencing the, what I think is, same noise as you. I looked at my suspension a couple of weeks and I need new struts in the rear and my sway bar bushings have seen better days. Unfortunately for you, I am trying to save up for some coilovers/struts as well as a full car prothane set so I do not have any answers for you and wont for a little bit.

alturic · Post by **alturic** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:30 am

ducktapetg wrote:I'm with Nick. They are cheap and easy to do (not saying it will be because everything that is easy something happens which ends up taking a day). Also, I am experiencing the, what I think is, same noise as you. I looked at my suspension a couple of weeks and I need new struts in the rear and my sway bar bushings have seen better days. Unfortunately for you, I am trying to save up for some coilovers/struts as well as a full car prothane set so I do not have any answers for you and wont for a little bit.

You're talking about the prothane inserts for the mounts, no? Those are hard inserts right? Doesn't that technically (I've been doing TOO much reading about motor mount problems) cause more vibrations?

The part that confuses me about the vibrations, while the mounts are all the AM Anchor ones, I assumed with the vibrations (and "shimmy" in the quarter panel on the driver side) it would be "feelable" through the actualy mount bolt. I can't see any sort of vibration through the actual mount bolts that go through the mounts to the engine. So it's almost as if the rubber is doing it's job but yeaaaaa.

Is there any reason you're going with coils/struts? Performance ones or because yours are bad? If bad, are they leaking, etc or just it's the last thing you can think that might be bad?

ducktapetg · Post by **ducktapetg** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:00 pm

I was talking about the prothane bushings for the suspension components. You are right about the hard inserts for the motor mounts being stiffer and therefore creating more vibrations. I would imagine that if you put your finger on the head of the bolt, you would feel the vibration but I don't think you would necessarily visually see a vibration especially with stock mounts.

I'm going with either coilovers or struts because my passenger rear strut is leaking and the driver side rear is blown. The main reason for coilovers is to lower the car however I only really need to replace the rear struts. This decision will come down to how much money I want to spend. Anyway, I originally thought the blown strut was the source of the noise but when I hit a bump, the noise would only happen when my front wheel hit it. For me, I am 80% confident that the noise is the sway bar links/bushings. When I did some sharp turns at 15-20mph I could replicate the noise every time turning in both directions.

Hope this helps

ducktapetg · Post by **ducktapetg** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:29 am

To bump this up, I just replaced my sway bar links and bushings front and rear with energy bushings. The noise is still there but the car feels a little bit firmer as the original bushings were bad.

renegade83 · Post by **renegade83** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:12 pm

I just replaced my sway bar end links and my symptoms were pretty much the same as yours. Now that I've changed them no more clunking noises!

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:01 am

Curious to see what the problem ends up being. It can be really frustrating trying to pinpoint these problems sometimes.

alturic · Post by **alturic** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:28 pm

renegade83 wrote:I just replaced my sway bar end links and my symptoms were pretty much the same as yours. Now that I've changed them no more clunking noises!

Were your CLEARLY bad or just "deformed" (there's a pic floating around on here I think it is even) that shows links that don't look bad at all, but "deformed".

When I say "deformed" I mean, not broke exactly but "molded" into the shape they normally stay in when all tightened-up, I suppose they get an extremely small amount of play in them and that's some noise for ya when hitting bumps.

renegade83 · Post by **renegade83** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:42 am

Mine were deformed, I could actually grab them and wiggle them around and make them clunk. It was kind of embarrassing driving down the road they were rattling bad as any loose thing would. Perhaps my bad vertical control arm bushings were the culprit of the actual "clunking" lol, but those end links sure made some noise too!

I have pics just haven't put them on the computer yet, I'll try to remember tomorrow.

alturic · Post by **alturic** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:14 am

renegade83 wrote:Mine were deformed, I could actually grab them and wiggle them around and make them clunk. It was kind of embarrassing driving down the road they were rattling bad as any loose thing would. Perhaps my bad vertical control arm bushings were the culprit of the actual "clunking" lol, but those end links sure made some noise too!

I have pics just haven't put them on the computer yet, I'll try to remember tomorrow.

Yea, last I checked mine (about a month ago) they had the "deformed" aspect (again, basically just forming to the tightened state) but didn't seem like they moved. At least nothing like my friends who just rattles as soon as he hits 5mph lol.

Yea, I just threw 2 whole CA assemblies (with what appears to be a grease-able ball joint fitting I might add) since my rear bushings were bad. Made zero effect on the noise.

renegade83 · Post by **renegade83** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:33 pm

I forgot to add I'm also having that growling noise just like you describe, it starts at 35mph! Once I get over 60 it starts to quiet down, before replacing my control arm bushings it would go away over 65. Now it's still there at 70 but the tone of it has changed. Brought it in for an alignment today and they took it for a test drive and told me the rear mount is bad, and the wheel bearings are bad. Told them to give me a price for both motor mounts (I just changed torque struts). They said $560, I said do it cause I don't feel like messing with it and have too much to do before I go back to work next Tuesday. For the wheel bearings they wanted $430 I think? Told them no way I'll change those myself and bring it back to them for alignment after. Hopefully that will take care of my growling issue.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:02 pm

Ouch, I forgot they charge so much to replace that mount. I would say it's too much, but I'd probably pay that if I had the extra cash to avoid the hassle. The knuckles are easy enough to pull off so I wouldn't pay them to do the bearings either.

alturic · Post by **alturic** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:36 pm

Donkeypuncher wrote:Ouch, I forgot they charge so much to replace that mount. I would say it's too much, but I'd probably pay that if I had the extra cash to avoid the hassle. The knuckles are easy enough to pull off so I wouldn't pay them to do the bearings either.

Yea, they charged me $280 for a bearing. The only (well, hindset not so much) "good" news is that they did the driver side, then said it wasn't that side so they did the passenger side for free. Then when I took it back for the CA's they said the passenger side was bad and I was like "feel free to fix it, I ain't paying for it" and they did.

Either way, to keep the thread updated, I think it might be time to ditch the car, seems like it might be turning into a money pit... I replaced the end-links over the weekend and it seems like the clunks on bumps are gone, so far. Now, just like when other things were replaced and new noises were noticeable, I just started noticing a "crunching" sound when braking, seems to be real noticeable when going down hills, as well as the same crunching sound when giving it gas a little too quick. Breaks/Rotors seem fine and only started noticing it after doing the end-links. They seem tight still though. That's been my problems this whole time, it's like I fix one symptom and being that tight parts get put on it opens up a new symptom.

TBFH I'd just buy a new car if I had the credit. LOL

alturic · Post by **alturic** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:33 am

So, just to keep this updated I did the Strut and Top Mount (reused the old coil springs since no-one had 2 springs or 2 quick struts in stock around me and all vibration/feeling in pedals seems to be gone when hitting bumps in the ~20 miles I've drove the car around.

The only (for the love of all that is sacred I hope it's something stupid and not the balljoint) thing left is a creak (rusty door hinge sound) when getting out of the car sometimes, turning the wheel "slightly" (as in millimeters, almost as if you're forcing it to make the noise really) and coming to a stop/accelerating from a stop.

I'm trying to think what all is technically "shifting/moving" when doing all of those 3 things considering it's the exact same noise with all 3 of those things...

I won't list what's been replaced, but rather what hasn't been replaced on BOTH sides so far in the past 3 months:

power steering rack
coil springs (as I said, reused them no signs of cracking or any sort of wear)
the actual bushings that hold the sway bar to the frame.

Everything and anything else related to steering or suspension has been replaced this so far in the past 3 months. I am taking it to a shop today just to get a "professionals" opinion on the creaking but I don't expect much as 4 shops didn't figure out the vibration/feeling over bumps was because of the struts but we'll see.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:46 pm

The creaking could be the lower ball joint, that's one of the common symptoms. Good luck.

bigbird · Post by **bigbird** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:03 am

check your center engine mount, the one that bolts into the frame rail. My was bad causing the same symptoms as yours. PITA to change though!